President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
User avatar
PresMuffley
Posts: 895
Joined: 06 Feb 2017, 12:00

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby PresMuffley » 24 Mar 2017, 17:06

sloopjohnc wrote:The more I hear about it, the more it seems as a way to placate Republicans in cutting the deficit and goes against all of Trump's promises of a plan that would cover more people and have better coverage than Obamacare.


The negotiations they had overnight ended up subtracting 180 billion dollars from the initial estimates in deficit savings while failing to provide any additional coverage.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.

User avatar
PresMuffley
Posts: 895
Joined: 06 Feb 2017, 12:00

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby PresMuffley » 24 Mar 2017, 17:09

The Great Defector wrote:Does anyone think that the republicans that against Trump should be acknowledged that they at least exist? I was going to say "commended at least" but I thought commended would even be too strong a word.


Fuck them. Their argument against it is it's not conservative enough - meaning, it doesn't rip off enough poor people. Their idea of freedom and liberty is having the freedom and liberty to choose whether you want to eat or have insurance.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 13860
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 24 Mar 2017, 17:11

Heard today how one way Trump won was by campaigning like Bernie Sanders, i.e., promising healthcare for all and infrastructure construction jobs. Following through does not look promising but … who knows?
persona non grata among those who worship at the altar of conventional wisdom

User avatar
The Great Defector
Posts: 16198
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 18:16

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby The Great Defector » 24 Mar 2017, 17:13

PresMuffley wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:Does anyone think that the republicans that against Trump should be acknowledged that they at least exist? I was going to say "commended at least" but I thought commended would even be too strong a word.


Fuck them. Their argument against it is it's not conservative enough - meaning, it doesn't rip off enough poor people. Their idea of freedom and liberty is having the freedom and liberty to choose whether you want to eat or have insurance.



That was my mistake, I meant republicans who have battled against Trump from day one of his nomination and have continued to do so. I know some opposed him and then changed to support him, but the ones that stuck it out.
Drama Queenie wrote:You are a chauvinist of the quaintest kind. About as threatening as Jack Duckworth, you are a harmless relic of that cherished era when things were 'different'. Now get back to drawing a moustache on that page three model

User avatar
sloopjohnc
Posts: 60303
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12
Location: One quake away from beachfront property
Contact:

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 24 Mar 2017, 17:24

PresMuffley wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:The more I hear about it, the more it seems as a way to placate Republicans in cutting the deficit and goes against all of Trump's promises of a plan that would cover more people and have better coverage than Obamacare.


The negotiations they had overnight ended up subtracting 180 billion dollars from the initial estimates in deficit savings while failing to provide any additional coverage.


A win-win for Republicans then.
Sneelock wrote:You’ll like her better after she dies. Siouxsie won’t ever die. She’s a vampire or some shit.

User avatar
sloopjohnc
Posts: 60303
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12
Location: One quake away from beachfront property
Contact:

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 24 Mar 2017, 18:10

Interesting article in Media Matters today:

Speaker of the House Paul Ryan (R-WI) scheduled the vote on the Republican health care bill, the American Health Care Act (AHCA), on the seventh anniversary of the passage of the Affordable Care Act (ACA), also known as Obamacare. Despite seven years of Republicans pledging to repeal and replace the ACA, all they’ve managed to come up with is a bill that is the manifestation of some of the worst myths and baseless critiques that right-wing media leveled against the ACA.

The Republican Party introduced their health care bill earlier this month. The proposed legislation severely cuts Medicaid, reduces tax credits while giving a massive tax cut to the wealthy, and dramatically increases the number of uninsured Americans, effectively erasing the gains made by the ACA. While right-wing media has spent the better part of a decade demonizing the ACA, three of their biggest myths -- allegations that the ACA hurts seniors, that Democrats rammed the law through Congress, and the never-ending predictions of a “death spiral” -- are actually valid criticisms of the GOP health care law.

The most famous right-wing media myth surrounding the ACA is the death panel -- the false allegation that the ACA created a panel of government bureaucrats that would ration health care for the elderly. PolitiFact dubbed the falsehood the “Lie of the Year” in 2009. However, right-wing media figures continued to push the myth for years. The specter of a death panel that might euthanize a grandmother fit into right-wing media’s narrative that the ACA would hurt seniors. Conservative media figures forwarded a variety of lies about how Obamacare was “sticking it to the seniors,” ranging from assertions that the ACA’s medical tax would apply to wheelchairs (it doesn’t) to false allegations that the law eviscerated Medicare by raiding its funding.

In reality, the ACA improved senior care by reducing prescription drug costs for the elderly and extending coverage to key services. The ACA improved access to care by increasing Medicare payments for primary services and instituted crucial protections to improve the “quality and coordination of care.” The health care law also extended the solvency of Medicare by over 10 years, after which “payroll taxes and other revenue will still cover 87 percent of Medicare hospital insurance costs.”

The AHCA, on the other hand, worsens the health care outlook for seniors. The bill loosens the age-rating protections that limit how much insurers can charge seniors, allowing them to discriminate against the elderly by charging them five times more than younger individuals. While allowing insurers to jack up premiums for the elderly, the AHCA also provides substantially less generous tax credits for purchasing health care, likely far below what would be needed to purchase comprehensive coverage. This disproportionately hurts working-class seniors. According to Vox, a 64-year-old who makes $26,500 a year will see “more than a 750 percent increase in premiums from Obamacare to the Republican bill.” As The Atlantic’s Vann Newkirk explained, “proportionally, the group of people that would see the most coverage losses under the AHCA is the population of people aged 50 and older.” And while the ACA increased Medicare’s solvency, the AHCA repeals the Medicare payroll surtax on the wealthy, which will “weaken Medicare’s financial status” by depleting its funding “three years sooner than under current law,” according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. Essentially, despite right-wing media having pushed the image of seniors as one of Obamacare’s main victims, it is actually the Republican health law that actively worsens access to health care while increasing costs for the elderly (just ask the AARP).

Another anti-Obamacare talking point featured conservative media figures decrying the allegedly undemocratic process by which Congress passed the ACA, claiming that Democrats were trying to “ram it down America’s throat.” Right-wing media took then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi’s (D-CA) comment “we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it” at the National Association of Counties out of context, to scandalize the health law as a secretive, closed door deal.

Despite the rampant right-wing smears, the debate over the ACA was “one of the most transparent” in recent history, as Congress debated the legislation for over a year before it was signed into law. The full context of Pelosi’s now notorious speech reveals that her comment was about the need to have conversations about the substance of the ACA outside of the “fog of the controversy,” because negative talking points dominated the discussions of the law.

The clear differences between the legislative processes for the ACA and the GOP health care bill lays bare right-wing media’s hypocrisy. As Politico’s Dan Diamond noted, “in 2009, Dems took 119 days between introducing [the] bill [and] taking a floor vote,” while “in 2017, [the] GOP will do it in 17 days.” The GOP has pledged to hold a vote on the bill in the House on March 23, despite the fact that the CBO has not finished scoring the substantial amendments released this week. Topher Spiro, the Center for American Progress’ Vice President for Health Policy, highlighted the hypocrisy, pointing out “Republicans *literally* have to pass the bill to find out what it does,” since it is highly likely there would be “no CBO score before the vote.” Instead of defending the democratic process they found so dear in 2009, conservative media figures portrayed the AHCA’s passage as inevitable and allowed guests to insist that the Republicans are using “regular order” to normalize the rush to pass the disastrous bill. The hypocritical treatment of these starkly contrasting legislative processes illustrates how right-wing media fealty to democratic norms only exists when it furthers their own narratives.

The third manifestation of conservative hypocrisy on health care stems from right-wing media’s continued predictions over the last seven years about the possible collapse of the Affordable Care Act’s insurance markets into a death spiral. Conservative outlets claimed the law was in a death spiral each time premiums increased, when Aetna withdrew from the exchanges, when they alleged there weren’t enough healthy enrollees, and when some of the co-ops failed. None of these alleged death spirals were real -- in fact, the newest CBO report confirms the ACA is not collapsing and will continue to stabilize, despite claims to the contrary.

By eliminating the individual mandate and replacing it with a much weaker “continuous coverage” requirement, the AHCA seriously risks a death spiral because it “could have the unintended consequence of discouraging healthy people from buying coverage.” Whereas the ACA’s individual mandate incentivizes purchasing insurance to avoid a penalty, under the continuous coverage requirement a healthy uninsured individual is likely to wait until they are sick to join the market, massively increasing costs. The Century Foundation outlined how the AHCA could result in a death spiral because coverage losses and cuts in financial assistance will result in few healthy enrollees. Families USA noted that the only way the AHCA creates stable markets is “by making it nearly impossible for older adults and the sick to find affordable coverage, leaving only the healthy or wealthy in the market.” While the predictions of the ACA’s demise have been greatly exaggerated, the Republican health law might actually lead to the death spiral right-wing media have long been hyping.

The false claims right-wing media have made over time about the ACA highlight only a few of the ways in which the AHCA would devastate the American health care system. The AHCA pays for a $600 billion tax cut for the wealthy by cutting Medicaid -- the program that provides essential health care for the disabled, the elderly, and low-income communities -- by 25 percent. The newest reported proposal to eliminate the ACA’s essential health benefits package will gut access to substance abuse treatment for victims of the opioid epidemic and likely increase costs for women as insurers can drop maternity coverage. By defunding Planned Parenthood, the AHCA will deprive many low-income communities of their only safety-net health center and result in thousands of additional births per year. If the law passes -- despite the apparent cancellation of the first scheduled attempt -- the AHCA could create the apocalyptic fantasy right-wing media desperately sought to find in the ACA.
Sneelock wrote:You’ll like her better after she dies. Siouxsie won’t ever die. She’s a vampire or some shit.

User avatar
sloopjohnc
Posts: 60303
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12
Location: One quake away from beachfront property
Contact:

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 24 Mar 2017, 18:13

And another:

A Excludes Those “Not Lawfully Present” In The US

FACT: The ACA Does Not Provide Government Payment For Abortions

FACT: The ACA Helps Diminsh Income Inequality

FACT: Taxpayer Money Is Not Being Used To Bail Out Insurers

FACT: Obamacare Is Not In A “Death Spiral”

The ACA Has Resulted In Economic And Public Health Gains

At The Same Time, Right-Wing Media Pushed For Harmful Policies That Are Included In The AHCA

FACT: HSAs Help The Wealthy, The Healthy, And The Educated -- Not The Uninsured

FACT: High-Risk Pools Historically Fail, Resulting In Less Coverage And Skyrocketing Costs For States And Consumers

FACT: Block Granting Medicaid Is A Benefit Cut And Would Increase The Number Of Uninsured

FACT: Work Requirements For Medicaid Are “Unnecessary And Counterproductive”

FACT: Health Care Clinics Cannot Make Up For The Loss Of Planned Parenthood

The AHCA Is A Giant Tax Break For The Wealthy That Would Drastically Increase The Number Of People Uninsured
Sneelock wrote:You’ll like her better after she dies. Siouxsie won’t ever die. She’s a vampire or some shit.

User avatar
PresMuffley
Posts: 895
Joined: 06 Feb 2017, 12:00

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby PresMuffley » 24 Mar 2017, 18:14

The Great Defector wrote:the ones that stuck it out.


I guess I'm not too familiar with that set. I know McCain has it in for Trump, but that seems to be more of a personal beef due to Trump's comments about McCain not being a war hero since he was captured.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.

User avatar
PresMuffley
Posts: 895
Joined: 06 Feb 2017, 12:00

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby PresMuffley » 24 Mar 2017, 18:59

Debate will be coming to a close shortly. I've gotta hand it to the Democrats - they've been handing the Republicans their ass for over 4 hrs now. I'm feeling a bit woozy here - wish they'd get on with the vote.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.

User avatar
toomanyhatz
Power-mad king of the WCC
Posts: 26157
Joined: 07 Apr 2005, 00:01
Location: Just east of where Charlie Parker went to do some relaxin'

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby toomanyhatz » 24 Mar 2017, 19:02

The Bushes don't think much of him either. I guess "true" conservatives don't like him because he makes it obvious what bullies they are?
sloopjohnc wrote:I know I picked the Diamondbacks, but they were the wildcard. Next teams will be a little tougher.


1959 1963 1965 1966 1974 1977 1978 1981 1988 2017!

User avatar
toomanyhatz
Power-mad king of the WCC
Posts: 26157
Joined: 07 Apr 2005, 00:01
Location: Just east of where Charlie Parker went to do some relaxin'

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby toomanyhatz » 24 Mar 2017, 19:02

Retweeted Andy Borowitz (@BorowitzReport):
Who could have predicted that electing a game-show host with no government experience, multiple bankruptcies, and a glaring personality disorder would turn out so badly?
sloopjohnc wrote:I know I picked the Diamondbacks, but they were the wildcard. Next teams will be a little tougher.


1959 1963 1965 1966 1974 1977 1978 1981 1988 2017!

User avatar
!!VAPRANT!!
hounds people off the board
Posts: 14397
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: pursued by the enraged queen

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby !!VAPRANT!! » 24 Mar 2017, 19:13

I need to get that one down to 140 characters so I can tweet it directly to Trump
Image

User avatar
Still Baron
Diamond Geezer
Posts: 42077
Joined: 18 Jul 2003, 05:38
Location: Impregnable Citadel of Technicality

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Still Baron » 24 Mar 2017, 20:04

Seems to me that the Republicans could carry on working on the bill and get it passed and then put Trump in a position where he has to sign it. It's not like Trump controls what Congress does or when. The real problem is that they could probably never get a majority to agree on something. A handful of moderates who don't want to (totally) fuck their constituents and a few handfuls of nuts who want to fuck everyone. No middle ground possible.
take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

User avatar
Belle Lettre
Éminence grise
Posts: 15003
Joined: 09 Oct 2008, 07:16
Location: Antiterra

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Belle Lettre » 24 Mar 2017, 20:09

Nikki Gradual wrote:
Get a fucking grip you narcissistic cretins.

User avatar
Snarfyguy
Dominated by the Obscure
Posts: 52123
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 19:04
Location: New York

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 24 Mar 2017, 20:10

Still Baron wrote:Seems to me that the Republicans could carry on working on the bill and get it passed and then put Trump in a position where he has to sign it. It's not like Trump controls what Congress does or when. The real problem is that they could probably never get a majority to agree on something. A handful of moderates who don't want to (totally) fuck their constituents and a few handfuls of nuts who want to fuck everyone. No middle ground possible.

^^^ That's show biz!
Jimbo wrote:Look, all I know is pretty much what I get from Robert Parry over at Consortium News.

User avatar
sloopjohnc
Posts: 60303
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12
Location: One quake away from beachfront property
Contact:

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 24 Mar 2017, 20:10

Still Baron wrote:Seems to me that the Republicans could carry on working on the bill and get it passed and then put Trump in a position where he has to sign it. It's not like Trump controls what Congress does or when. The real problem is that they could probably never get a majority to agree on something. A handful of moderates who don't want to (totally) fuck their constituents and a few handfuls of nuts who want to fuck everyone. No middle ground possible.


I was just leaving my apartment for lunch and thought I heard CNN announce that Ryan is pulling bill.

Edit: Didn't click on Belle's link. Thanks.
Sneelock wrote:You’ll like her better after she dies. Siouxsie won’t ever die. She’s a vampire or some shit.

User avatar
Snarfyguy
Dominated by the Obscure
Posts: 52123
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 19:04
Location: New York

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 24 Mar 2017, 20:11

Belle Lettre wrote:http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/03/trump-asks-republicans-withdraw-healthcare-bill-170324194840115.html

Blimey

Is that British English for "holy fucking shit!"?

(please pardon my language)
Jimbo wrote:Look, all I know is pretty much what I get from Robert Parry over at Consortium News.

User avatar
sloopjohnc
Posts: 60303
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12
Location: One quake away from beachfront property
Contact:

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 24 Mar 2017, 20:12

Belle Lettre wrote:http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/03/trump-asks-republicans-withdraw-healthcare-bill-170324194840115.html

Blimey


Trump's an idiot. First he gives ultimatum and then he tells House to pull it. Which one is it, nimrod?
Sneelock wrote:You’ll like her better after she dies. Siouxsie won’t ever die. She’s a vampire or some shit.

User avatar
Belle Lettre
Éminence grise
Posts: 15003
Joined: 09 Oct 2008, 07:16
Location: Antiterra

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Belle Lettre » 24 Mar 2017, 20:15

Snarfyguy wrote:
Belle Lettre wrote:http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/03/trump-asks-republicans-withdraw-healthcare-bill-170324194840115.html

Blimey

Is that British English for "holy fucking shit!"?

(please pardon my language)

:D Yeah
Nikki Gradual wrote:
Get a fucking grip you narcissistic cretins.

User avatar
Snarfyguy
Dominated by the Obscure
Posts: 52123
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 19:04
Location: New York

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 24 Mar 2017, 20:24

sloopjohnc wrote:
Belle Lettre wrote:http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/03/trump-asks-republicans-withdraw-healthcare-bill-170324194840115.html

Blimey


Trump's an idiot. First he gives ultimatum and then he tells House to pull it. Which one is it, nimrod?

This way, he doesn't have to "lose" the vote, I'm guessing. It's a political black eye, in any event.
Jimbo wrote:Look, all I know is pretty much what I get from Robert Parry over at Consortium News.