Former President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Mike Boom
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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby Mike Boom » 30 Mar 2023, 23:17

Finally.
May he rot in hell.
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Six String
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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby Six String » 31 Mar 2023, 00:17

One down and at least three more to go! He’s going to be to busy to run for office. May this be the beginning of the flood of justice lapping upon Trump’s shores.
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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby The Fish » 31 Mar 2023, 11:35

I assume the alleged offence ocurred in New York State and therefore fell within the remit of state prosecution. Pleased to see it happen of course but not sure there is a "smoking gun". This will involve going through accounts and may prove difficult to categorically disprove the lies Trump will udoubtedly come up with.

I'm amazed charges haven't been brought with regards the Georgia phone call. Is a charge expected? Could/must this be subject of a state prosecution and do they have the will to proceed or could this be a federal case? How does this work. Surely this is the one to go for and herein lies the "smoking gun" as TRump is recorded on tape asking for 11,000 votes to be "found" after the result has been certified and declared. The electoral purpose is sacrosanct and this was a clear and bltatnt attempt to pervert its course. What would happen for eaxmple if JOe PUblic was caught trying to vote multiple times.
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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby BARON CORNY DOG » 31 Mar 2023, 13:04

Every one seems to be very sure of themselves given that no one really knows the specifics of the charges (and supposedly there's a lot of them). The right wingers know that this is a sham and the rest of us know that justice is (finally) coming. There's every chance that these are flimsy charges for penny-ante crimes and at least a good chance that not much will actually come of it. But who can say at this point?
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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby BARON CORNY DOG » 31 Mar 2023, 13:08

The Fish wrote:I'm amazed charges haven't been brought with regards the Georgia phone call. Is a charge expected? Could/must this be subject of a state prosecution and do they have the will to proceed or could this be a federal case? How does this work. Surely this is the one to go for and herein lies the "smoking gun" as TRump is recorded on tape asking for 11,000 votes to be "found" after the result has been certified and declared. The electoral purpose is sacrosanct and this was a clear and bltatnt attempt to pervert its course. What would happen for eaxmple if JOe PUblic was caught trying to vote multiple times.


I haven't followed it closely so I don't know (or more accurately, don't remember) what the specific issues are, but, strangely, the conduct of federal elections is left up to the states. For that reason, most infractions of election laws are violations of state laws. Based on what I remember, the Georgia prosecutors have been fairly aggressive.

Trump continues to lose legal battles about his claims to executive privilege and who can provide grand jury testimony, so there could be much more to come.
take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

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Lord Rother
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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby Lord Rother » 31 Mar 2023, 15:32

On the hush money case itself - bit early to say seeing as we don't even know what the charges are but - it's going to be very difficult for him to get a not guilty verdict because his lawyers have a helluva predicament.

They can say that Cohen is not a reliable witness, but he will take the stand, having already done time for his role in paying off Stormy Daniels (and the implications of doing so). So a crime has already been established which surely adds a level of credibility to whatever he says.

But Trump's lawyers cannot really allow him to take the stand to refute what Cohen says. They can coach him all they like but he can't control his mouth and his brain doesn't see implications to what he says, (50 years of never being held accountable for his crimes will do that to someone I suppose) so it's an absolute certainty that a decent prosecution lawyer will be able to rile him up in the first 30 minutes to the extent that he incriminates himself further. (And he'd likely be on the stand for days on end - can anyone see him handling that well - all he has is lies and utterly false narratives that are so deeply ensconced in his brain that, coupled with his "I'm untouchable" arrogance, would surely seal his fate.)

And what does Trump himself do now? He will want to rile up his base of course, but can he do that? If he attempts any form of intimidation of judge, witnesses, prosecutors and jurors (his usual thin plausible deniability won't wash it here as a defendent in an actual trial) he'll be denied any access to media of any kind (social or otherwise) and get himself locked up for breaking bail conditions.... one would imagine.

The irony of all this is of course that if the $130k had not been paid in the first place, he very likely would never have become President, so none of the other crimes he is also likely to be indicted for, would ever have happened. If he'd just stayed away from politics and carried on his grift and shady activities he would likely be more wealthy than he is today and be able to have a whale of a time in his dotage on his (and his father's) ill-gotten gains.

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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby Minnie the Minx » 31 Mar 2023, 16:03

Lord Rother wrote:
The irony of all this is of course that if the $130k had not been paid in the first place, he very likely would never have become President, so none of the other crimes he is also likely to be indicted for, would ever have happened. If he'd just stayed away from politics and carried on his grift and shady activities he would likely be more wealthy than he is today and be able to have a whale of a time in his dotage on his (and his father's) ill-gotten gains.


Of course he would have still been President. His fan base don’t care if he fellates goats. A badge of honour, to have such an erotically charged leader! A man’s man!
Last edited by Minnie the Minx on 31 Mar 2023, 16:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby Samoan » 31 Mar 2023, 16:07

"In Goat We Trust"
Nonsense to the aggressiveness, I've seen more aggression on the my little pony message board......I mean I was told.

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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby Minnie the Minx » 31 Mar 2023, 16:08

Samoan wrote:"In Goat We Trust"


In Goat We Thrust, more like!

:D
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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby Lord Rother » 31 Mar 2023, 17:40

:lol:

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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby mudshark » 31 Mar 2023, 22:03

I don't like this at all. Indictment means nothing. Lesson A in law school: "you can indict a ham sandwich", as Pence rightfully mentioned. The whole thing looks flimsy at best. A bit like "we can't get Capone on mass murder, so let's get him on taxes". Worse, this keeps the fucker in the spotlight, which is exactly what he wants. It doesn't look good: an elected black DA whose platform included a promise he'd go after the Donald, prosecuting him in a district where he's hated (it will be impossible to put an impartial jury together, which means the process would probably have to be held in Albany or something, assuming it will ever get that far). This will do wonders for him in the polls, and he'll be able to use this 'weaponization of the justice system' mantra until well after the 2024 election, because this is going to take for-fucking-ever. So this is likely to help him getting the nomination and then it's up to moderate Republicans and independents to keep him out. That was going to be the case in 2016 as well. If he's going to run against sleepy Joe, I see Trump win hands down. He needs to be ignored as much as possible, same as we have wisely ignored crooked Hillary (which she was) after her fall from grace. The one person I see as a ' saviour'. Michelle Obama.
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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby Lord Rother » 31 Mar 2023, 22:42

Hmm, interesting, I disagree with just about everything in the above post.

Apart from Michelle Obama.

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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby Diamond Dog » 01 Apr 2023, 12:30

mudshark wrote: It doesn't look good: an elected black DA whose platform included a promise he'd go after the Donald, prosecuting him in a district where he's hated


Which is a good thing. He won't be able to get the support outside the courtyard he's expecting, in an attempt to get the trial abandoned, because the people of Queens hate Trump. This is good. As is the fact the jury will be taken from those same people - an impartial jury only has to be capable of making rational decisions and not being clearly anti - Trump... there doesn't need to be an equal amount of jurors with opposite opinions on the accused. This is all good.
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Lord Rother
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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby Lord Rother » 01 Apr 2023, 17:35

FWIW....

Michael Cohen’s lawyer was urging people on panels last night discussing the indictment to:

1. Remember innocent until proven guilty.

2. Wait until the indictment is unsealed because people are likely to be very surprised at what the DA’s investigators’ incredibly thorough work has uncovered.

Sounds promising.

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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby Charlie O. » 01 Apr 2023, 20:21

mudshark wrote:The whole thing looks flimsy at best. A bit like "we can't get Capone on mass murder, so let's get him on taxes".

Yeah, but... that worked, did it not?
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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby mudshark » 01 Apr 2023, 21:52

Yes, it worked, as we all know. But he wasn't a former president who is 'believed and trusted' by about 30% of Americans.
I was out buying a round bale hay ($160.00/bale, up from $100.00 a year ago because of last year's drought) for our horses this morning. All through places in Texas like Tomball, Magnolia, Conroe, Cut 'n Shoot etc. you can once again see lines of trucks with TRUMP and LET'S GO BRANDON flags. The people in those trucks are all angry, armed and convinced that every word that comes out of the mouths of Boebert, Jordan, Tayor-Greene and of course the fuckwit himself is true. Until a couple of years ago it was still sort of fun for a foreigner with social-democrat beliefs to go to local bars in the rural parts North of Houston for a couple of beers and some friendly banter with the locals. Nowadays it's best to stay home because there's not much friendliness left.
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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby Six String » 02 Apr 2023, 05:53

Loud minority. Fuck ‘em. Neither Trump nor Biden caused the price of hay to rise. I know that wasn’t your main point and I get what you are saying but T needs to pay for some of his sins. Just some of them.
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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby kath » 02 Apr 2023, 19:11

mudshark wrote:I don't like this at all. Indictment means nothing. Lesson A in law school: "you can indict a ham sandwich", as Pence rightfully mentioned. The whole thing looks flimsy at best. A bit like "we can't get Capone on mass murder, so let's get him on taxes". Worse, this keeps the fucker in the spotlight, which is exactly what he wants. It doesn't look good: an elected black DA whose platform included a promise he'd go after the Donald, prosecuting him in a district where he's hated (it will be impossible to put an impartial jury together, which means the process would probably have to be held in Albany or something, assuming it will ever get that far). This will do wonders for him in the polls, and he'll be able to use this 'weaponization of the justice system' mantra until well after the 2024 election, because this is going to take for-fucking-ever. So this is likely to help him getting the nomination and then it's up to moderate Republicans and independents to keep him out. That was going to be the case in 2016 as well. If he's going to run against sleepy Joe, I see Trump win hands down. He needs to be ignored as much as possible, same as we have wisely ignored crooked Hillary (which she was) after her fall from grace. The one person I see as a ' saviour'. Michelle Obama.


allow me to counter, as i disagree with just about every single sentence in your post.

i think you may be surrounded by too much texas in texas when it comes to politics. most of your points are actually right wing MAGAt talking points, with the same kind of "logic," so you may wanna re-examine. you really don't wanna be counted in that crowd.

1. you operate under the assumption that this indictment is the only indictment and there will be no others. as there are still many grand juries active both on the state and federal level, why you would think this is one-and-done is a mystery. this indictment came out first. the MAGAts are actually making the same mistake. they are gonna have no other stratosphere to rocket up to as these things come down, and in their typical dumbness, they are shooting their wad too fast.

2. just because there are indictments coming with more serious charges doesn't mean this one is weak. at all. a total of 34 counts doesn't sound all that flimsy to me. the pattern of conspiracy involving campaign finance cover-up is fairly easy to establish. they have the paperwork and the witnesses, and a judge who clearly is not putting up with any of trump's standard delay tactics and flaming bullcrap. i'm optimistic about the case itself.

3. the only people who think it looks bad for a black man to be DA are the racist MAGAts themselves. the only ones who are gonna buy it as the reason behind the charges are the same. who else do you think is gonna find it suspicious? MAGAts and trumpers use race-baiting and anti-semitism constantly (which is why they are all saying soros is behind this, rigging it and pulling the strings. "soros' is code for jew.) in other words, all of that "logic" is preaching to the bigoted choir, who are already easily there. why you think this would make any dent in any other people is beyond me. MAGAts will MAGAt. and they are not gonna win over new believers.

4. you say that somehow this district is a problem... again, for whom exactly? i don't recall any problems with the conviction of the trump org. where was it convicted?

5. you say this will work wonders in the polls... i assume you mean polls among republicans? it is obvious trump will be the frontrunner for them anyway. his only competition is desantis, and desantis has been shooting himself in the ass with MAGAts. they hate him and are now trolling his events. let the rabid rats eat each other, it's only good for dems.

6. how is winning the nomination any indication of how the presidential election will go? this jump you make to oh trump will easily beat biden makes zero sense to me. i mean, biden did slaughter him in the last election, in both popular vote and electoral count.

7. MAGAt fun with fallacy time: many MAGAts are trying to paint this the way you are... oh, this will only make him more popular and will guarantee he gets back in the white house. then why exactly are they all throwing drama queen fits about how horrible this indictment is? they are squawking about how it's the end of justice in america... the end of the rule of law... we're a banana republic... including many of the most famous spokesfucquers breaking down on camera, with some crying over the horrrror of trump getting this "flimsy" indictment. this is, shall we say, a contradiction, but as usual, none of any of their talking points have any logic at all. as i said before, the only ppl who buy this stuff are already in the culty, idiotic choir. among republicans, trump is gaining ground in polls while desantis is plummeting. that is among republicans. again, how you project this to the presidential election makes no sense.

8. much of trump's rigging arguments have actively worked against him and suppressed votes. claiming that voting is all a sham tends to make trump voters believe it's not worth it to vote, which is part of the reason we ended up with two dem senators in georgia. the right wing also thought they were heading into a red wave in the midterms. it didn't happen. the main stupidity of the right is that instead of coming up with any strategy to win over voters, all they can do is amp up on the stupid... more race-baiting, more fearmongering, more downright idiotic deflections like hunter biden's laptop and all the other projections they try to come up with in their bashing of biden 24/7. it comes right from the top. it is all trump knows how to do, and they follow suit. they have painted themselves into an ever shrinking corner, so they double down and triple down on the very bullshit that got them into that corner. squawking about how cruelly and unfairly trump is being treated is more of the same. they have no other strategy, and i think it will be their doom. they learned totally nada from the midterms.

9. crooked hillary is yet another crap talking point. i don't even wanna waste the time on this one, but i will if you insist. funny, how you bring up 2016, but ignore 2020. weird.

10. again, i think you make a massive though understandable mistake to think that your anecdotal experience in texas represents any kind of national metric about the strength of trump voters. i am perfectly willing to see you put up national numbers that would establish that these voters are anything close to a majority of americans.

11. you say trump needs to be ignored... what the hell does that mean? please explain. all indictments against him are absolutely essential in making sure people are equal under the law, and corrupt rich white assholes will be held accountable like anybody else. this is how justice is supposed to work. he can take his chances at trial like any other american would. i mean, it's a shame for him that his lawyers are the dumbest, most mildewy-brained idiots to ever bribe their way out of law school, and they only seem to work in the bubble they see as the fox court of public opinion. it's a shame for him that he is so moronic and so incompetent, he has left massive amounts of evidence of his criminality. but he has made that bedbuggy bed for himself. what are you actually suggesting? that he shouldn't be indicted? that is complete horse crap.

here's what i have been witnessing:

trump is terrified and has been increasingly melting down. he has been trying desperately to get his violent mob to rise up and save him because he knows nothing else will. they won't. have you seen the number of trumpers who *have* answered his clarion call? it is fucquin laughable. and i do not believe for a single second that anyone in new york is shaking in their boots becuz of trump's and his mouthpieces' over-the-top blather. this will have no effect on the legal process and how it plays out, which is what trump really wants. i think this indictment and the ones that are coming are the opposite of good for trump, and his minions are absolutely flailing. the amped up bullshit spin is so predictable.

but you really shouldn't buy into it.

if you wanna respond short form, answer me this: how is anything you say in your post, even if any of it were true, gonna win over new voters, let alone enough new voters to outperform his run in 2020?

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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby mudshark » 02 Apr 2023, 19:51

Wow, that's quite an epistle. I'm busy and will probably read the whole thing later. Hust briefly: I'm not assuming this is the only indictment. I hope there will be a lot more, especially on connection with the Georgian shenanigans. But so far it's the only one, and it's not the best one, in my opinion. Also, I don't think it's a bad thing that it comes from a black DA in Manhattan. But the fact that it does gives plenty of ammunition to the MAGA crowd.

I really hope you're right on him melting down or whatever. Trump's 30 points ahead of No.2, which is Ron de Santis, but may be too busy trying to overthrow the Magic Kingdom.
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Lord Rother
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Re: Former President Donald J. Trump

Postby Lord Rother » 03 Apr 2023, 17:50

In a TV interview (60 mins) with Lesley Stahl, MTG says Democrats are paedophiles.

When Stahl pushes back she doubles down saying they are in favour of gender manipulation operations on children....

Stahl raises hey eyebrows, rolls her eyes and says "Wow".


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