Former President Donald J. Trump

[Six String]

That's sorta my point (kath's last post on the last page). Obviously, the gun issue is a major problem. But this shooting is way bigger than that. Someone really tried to assassinate as many Congressmen as he could in one go. We all need to step back. I'm nearly as bitter and guilty as anyone, but the partisan paralysis we're in has to break---from national party politics, all the way down to our little worlds on FB and Twitter. It cannot (be allowed to) get worse.

Good post Michael and I agree. It's time to take a deep breath.

[Six String]

Terrible situation. Craziness doesn't choose political sides....

so true. so many things piss me off about lack of gun control, about rabid partisanship and the hypocritical viewpoints, all of that political crap... but the truth is, the very first thing that hits me is a dad, shoving his kid to hide under an SUV in the hopes he wouldn't be found and shot.

Yes, he got a bit emotional during a PBS interview on camera and he later apologized for it. That seemed a little weird to me but he had two sons there with him which I'm sure put all kinds of thoughts in his head. I'd be emotional too. It's not me to judge him. That was a pretty horiffic ten minutes or whatever it was. It must have felt like an hour.

[Tactful Cactus]

So Trump himself is now part of the Russia/obstruction investigation and he's being personally sued for the whole emoluments thing. Could this finally be the end? Surely he's at a point now where he's weighing up whether to stay against resignation/pardon/political reset. Weeks?

[BARON CORNY DOG]

I would be stunned if he resigned. I could even see him playing out the string further than Nixon and forcing the House to impeach and the Senate to convict. And he'll blame everything and everyone else the whole way, despite the fact that at every step of the way, he has created this thing and fed it.

[Tactful Cactus]

If he resigned he could negotiate an exit, impeachment (I'm guessing) leaves him with less leverage and his fate in the hands of the swamp. If he wanted to risk that and end up in jail, great, but I'd take a quick and easy divorce if I were him

[BARON CORNY DOG]

Impeachment has no criminal consequences I'm
aware of, and criminally prosecuting a President for actions he took as President is basically unheard of (but probably not impossible). There's no leverage to be gained or lost, unless perhaps there is a real threat of criminal prosecution.

The bottom line for me is that Trump is loathe to be seen as a quitter, and there's no way he could imagine quitting this extraordinary prize that he has won for himself almost singlehandedly. Particularly as he sees everything through his own bizarre persecution complex prism. He things everyone else is to blame when the opposite is true.

[Tactful Cactus]

Fair enough, I still think I'm right though -- in his mind he won't see a resignation as quitting. Its self-preservation, like declaring bankruptcy

$50 to the charity of your choice if he hasn't resigned by July 4th

[BARON CORNY DOG]

$50 to the charity of your choice if he hasn't resigned by July 4th

You're on!
NO WAY he resigns in three weeks or however long that is!

[Count Machuki]

I would be stunned if he resigned. I could even see him playing out the string further than Nixon and forcing the House to impeach and the Senate to convict. And he'll blame everything and everyone else the whole way, despite the fact that at every step of the way, he has created this thing and fed it.

THIS

[Davey the Fat Boy]

That's sorta my point (kath's last post on the last page). Obviously, the gun issue is a major problem. But this shooting is way bigger than that. Someone really tried to assassinate as many Congressmen as he could in one go. We all need to step back. I'm nearly as bitter and guilty as anyone, but the partisan paralysis we're in has to break---from national party politics, all the way down to our little worlds on FB and Twitter. It cannot (be allowed to) get worse.

A thousand times...yes.

The internet has served this strange function of reinforcing extremism wherever it can flourish. That means we'll be seeing "crazy" in all sorts of new places if we don't find ways of dialing it down.

This guy was a Sanders supporter - not a nazi survivalist. I don't blame Sanders or lay this at the feet of his movement. It could have just as easily been a Clinton supporter or a Stein or Johnson supporter. I've seen rabid extremism in all camps - and I've seen it egged on online.

The entire project of American Democracy is about finding a way to get a country of hundreds of millions to consent to live together. By nature that suggests that not many people are likely to ever get exactly what they want. But online political culture insists that we all ought to be revolutionaries bringing on the political final solution in our lifetimes. Compromise and moderation are no longer American values. They are sell-out words. More corrosive...we aren't even trying to find a way to live together anymore. We seek to defeat the enemy.

As long as we see our political opponents as enemies and speak of them in dehumanizing language...we make incidents like yesterday's more inevitable.

[BARON CORNY DOG]

Here's the Washington Post story that broke the attempted obstruction focus, followed by Mike Allen's take:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... dbfb4e801e

https://www.axios.com/the-reasons-repub ... 77548.html

[Charlie O.]

Impeachment has no criminal consequences I'm
aware of, and criminally prosecuting a President for actions he took as President is basically unheard of (but probably not impossible).

Not impossible - remember Ford's pardon of Nixon.

[BARON CORNY DOG]

Impeachment has no criminal consequences I'm
aware of, and criminally prosecuting a President for actions he took as President is basically unheard of (but probably not impossible).

Not impossible - remember Ford's pardon of Nixon.

Yeah, a useful example for Pence to follow, should he need it.

[Charlie O.]

Yeah, a useful example for Pence to follow, should he need it.

An interesting thought. Ford's pardon cost him the '76 election - I'm not certain the same would happen in this hypothetical scenario. (Then again, I doubt that all those Trump supporters would be happy with a President Pence anyway.) I'm also not certain that Pence would do it.

[Charlie O.]

$50 to the charity of your choice if he hasn't resigned by July 4th

You're on!
NO WAY he resigns in three weeks or however long that is!

Yeah, I could imagine him resigning (though I do think Baron's projection is more likely), but if it happens it's not gonna happen that quickly.

[Snarfyguy]

Gingrich, before the scope of Mueller's investigation included Trump himself: Mueller is a “superb choice” whose “reputation is impeccable for honesty and integrity.”

Gingrich, now that the scope of Mueller's investigation includes Trump himself: “Mueller is now clearly the tip of the deep state spear aimed at destroying or at a minimum undermining and crippling the Trump presidency. Mueller is setting up a dragnet of obstruction, financial questions and every aspect of Trump's life and his associates’ lives. Very dangerous.”

[Tactful Cactus]

NO WAY....

it's not gonna happen....

Yea yea... I've been reading those phrases alot in the past 12 months!

[Davey the Fat Boy]

I predict that he finishes out his term.

[Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman]

I am compiling a reader on neoliberalism and the current state of the USA, UK, and Europe.

In this context, I found the two following articles, and I'd like to see others' opinions on them. I want to approach them without any prejudice myself, and moreover, they'll be part of a much greater whole anyway.

Oh, and I couldn't watch the accompanying videos yet, for technical reasons:

http://prospect.org/article/open-letter ... leadership

https://www.statnews.com/2017/05/23/don ... nterviews/

[sloopjohnc]

I would be stunned if he resigned. I could even see him playing out the string further than Nixon and forcing the House to impeach and the Senate to convict. And he'll blame everything and everyone else the whole way, despite the fact that at every step of the way, he has created this thing and fed it.

This.

When Jim Harbaugh, the Donald Trump of football coaches, was running the 49ers, he did some crazy things. Hall of Fame QB, Steve Young, had a weekly radio show on the 49ers game station and was asked about Harbaugh's craziness. Young told the radio hosts that Harbaugh was totally predictable and you could see him coming a mile away.

Based on what we've seen of Trump so far, I would say the same. His unpredictability is predictable. You just have to go back and look at past behavior. It's just we've never seen someone do the things he'd done in the office he holds.