President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
User avatar
bobzilla77
Posts: 15635
Joined: 23 Jun 2006, 02:56
Location: Dilute! Dilute! OK!

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby bobzilla77 » 08 Feb 2018, 21:14

It's not about blaming Russia for Trump.

It's about, if Trump took assistance from Russia to defeat his political opponent, so he could do stuff for Russia that another American would reasonably never do, then he is a traitor and should be dealt with as such.

Blame Trump for being such a craven opportunist.
Jimbo wrote:The Natural Times said no matter, essentially we are all doomed.


User avatar
sneelock
Posts: 11250
Joined: 19 Nov 2011, 23:56
Location: Lincoln Head City

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sneelock » 08 Feb 2018, 23:41

He's trying to use the Presidency to hype his own brand and shield him from bad JUJU.
he WILL be JUJUed.
damned straight!
gash on ignore wrote:At 50, everyone has the face he deserves.

User avatar
Flower
Posts: 5036
Joined: 05 Mar 2009, 22:22
Location: Unlisted

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Flower » 08 Feb 2018, 23:44

Sneelock wrote:He's trying to use the Presidency to hype his own brand and shield him from bad JUJU.
he WILL be JUJUed.
damned straight!



A couple of hours ago, I emailed a friend about Karma and people getting bad Juju. :lol:

I guess that you've watched too many Tarzan and Zombie movies as a kid too. :lol: :lol:
If love could've saved you, you would've lived forever.

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 14698
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 09 Feb 2018, 03:29

bobzilla77 wrote:It's not about blaming Russia for Trump.

It's about, if Trump took assistance from Russia to defeat his political opponent, so he could do stuff for Russia that another American would reasonably never do, then he is a traitor and should be dealt with as such.

Blame Trump for being such a craven opportunist.


Like if he took campaign money from the (choose your industry or foreign government lobby) and did favors for them. Hmm. I hope that model never catches on.
Gadfly

User avatar
sneelock
Posts: 11250
Joined: 19 Nov 2011, 23:56
Location: Lincoln Head City

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sneelock » 09 Feb 2018, 03:45

No, more like if he laundered money for Russian Mafia scumbags and tried to demonize anybody in a position to get to the bottom of it.

It’s working. 74% of Republicans think the FBI are the scumbags.
gash on ignore wrote:At 50, everyone has the face he deserves.

User avatar
Snarfyguy
Dominated by the Obscure
Posts: 52563
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 19:04
Location: New York

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 09 Feb 2018, 04:09

Jimbo wrote:
bobzilla77 wrote:It's not about blaming Russia for Trump.

It's about, if Trump took assistance from Russia to defeat his political opponent, so he could do stuff for Russia that another American would reasonably never do, then he is a traitor and should be dealt with as such.

Blame Trump for being such a craven opportunist.


Like if he took campaign money from the (choose your industry or foreign government lobby) and did favors for them. Hmm. I hope that model never catches on.

Lobbying is pretty scummy, but it's NOT ILLEGAL (like it should be). And he's THE PRESIDENT. Associates of his advocating on behalf of hostile foreign powers goes WAY beyond that in terms of legal seriousness. We're talking about the real, legal definition of the word treason, not that "not clapping hard enough" kind.

The fact that it's Russia we're talking about, as opposed to any other country or non-state agent, isn't as important as the fact that the (yes, yet-to-be-evinced) conduct -- at its worst -- is howlingly, fundamentally, seriously as bad as shit can get. So look away then, but you can't claim this is a "hoax," or a "witch hunt" or whatever you (or you guys) used to say.

I'm with you about all that shit like Citizens United and Wall Street, but regardless of how inopportune in terms of international diplomacy you think the backlash to this story is, the scumbaggery on DT's part that you've conceded should be a matter of law enforcement, and if you disagree with that it's only out of some willful, mulish obstinacy on your part and you know it's true - say it with me right now. :)
Last edited by Snarfyguy on 09 Feb 2018, 04:15, edited 1 time in total.
Jimbo wrote:Look, all I know is pretty much what I get from Robert Parry over at Consortium News.

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 14698
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 09 Feb 2018, 04:13

Sneelock wrote:No, more like if he laundered money for Russian Mafia scumbags and tried to demonize anybody in a position to get to the bottom of it.

It’s working. 74% of Republicans think the FBI are the scumbags.


C'mon everybody and join me - SNEE! - and support our G-Men!

What do they say about good deeds coming back to bite you in the ass. Yes, I realize this isn't contelpro or the MLK assassination coverup - I mean investigation - but the Republican opportunists are pulling themselves up the cliff with pitons the lefties left in the rock face.

Not that he didn't get involved with the Russian mafia but where is the proof? Mueller is investigating, good. But where is the killer news story that he was. One actual quid pro quo story of Trump doing favors for gangsters might do the trick. That Donald Jr. said in a golf magazine interview that they get a lot of funding from "Russians" is a huge hint of something dirty. Where is the follow up? Instead, it looks like the Democrat neocons want a "grand theory" that somehow - anyhow - ties Putin into the scheme.
Gadfly

User avatar
Snarfyguy
Dominated by the Obscure
Posts: 52563
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 19:04
Location: New York

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 09 Feb 2018, 04:18

Jimbo wrote:Not that he didn't get involved with the Russian mafia but where is the proof? Mueller is investigating, good. But where is the killer news story that he was. One actual quid pro quo story of Trump doing favors for gangsters might do the trick. That Donald Jr. said in a golf magazine interview that they get a lot of funding from "Russians" is a huge hint of something dirty. Where is the follow up? Instead, it looks like the Democrat neocons want a "grand theory" that somehow - anyhow - ties Putin into the scheme.

How many times do I have to remind you that they don't release the evidence while the investigation is underway? Don't you think that would affect how certain witnesses would answer certain questions?
Jimbo wrote:Look, all I know is pretty much what I get from Robert Parry over at Consortium News.

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 14698
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 09 Feb 2018, 04:24

Snarfyguy wrote:
Jimbo wrote:Not that he didn't get involved with the Russian mafia but where is the proof? Mueller is investigating, good. But where is the killer news story that he was. One actual quid pro quo story of Trump doing favors for gangsters might do the trick. That Donald Jr. said in a golf magazine interview that they get a lot of funding from "Russians" is a huge hint of something dirty. Where is the follow up? Instead, it looks like the Democrat neocons want a "grand theory" that somehow - anyhow - ties Putin into the scheme.

How many times do I have to remind you that they don't release the evidence while the investigation is underway? Don't you think that would affect how certain witnesses would answer certain questions?


If the Steele Dossier isn't enough evidence nothing is. But the slimy Republicans are doing a pretty good job of debunking it. But they aren't debunking it. They are attacking Steele, they are saying it's biased because the info was collected for the HRC campaign. Gee, it's like how the Democrats debunked the Podesta emails when everything in the emails was true.
Gadfly

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 14698
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 09 Feb 2018, 04:44

Snarfyguy wrote:
The fact that it's Russia we're talking about, as opposed to any other country ...


And one of the few good things Trump said in his campaign was he wanted good relations with Russia. KAPPPOWWW!!! All of a sudden Russian hackers appear just as it is being revealed that our government has the capability to mimic hackers, to spy on each and everyone of us, that the Ukraine revolution was an op like Mosadek in Iran, that Russia annexed Crimea when an internationally respected group verified it was a fair election. The US had it's eye on the big regime change: Russia!!! And Trump came along and poked that eye and now we, the William Crystals, and you, the dupes, are scrambling, fumbling, flailing to get back some war-footed equilibrium in order to get back to taking over Russia.
Gadfly

User avatar
Davey the Fat Boy
Posts: 23320
Joined: 05 Jan 2006, 02:55
Location: Applebees

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 09 Feb 2018, 12:23

Hey Jimbo,

This seems like some pretty detailed investigative work (as opposed to your usual fare). Any thoughts about “computational propaganda” and twitter accounts like @KARYN19138585?:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politi ... emo-216935
The opinions of this poster are subjective. That’s how opinions work.

Image

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 14698
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 09 Feb 2018, 13:09

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Hey Jimbo,

This seems like some pretty detailed investigative work (as opposed to your usual fare). Any thoughts about “computational propaganda” and twitter accounts like @KARYN19138585?:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politi ... emo-216935


But this back and forth masks the real point. Whether it is Republican or Russian or “Macedonian teenagers”—it doesn't really matter. It is computational propaganda—meaning artificially amplified and targeted for a specific purpose...


That let's Russia off the hook for this hack.

It means we are living in the future where thanks to the internet we are capable of a making an artificially widespread blast of information or disinformation. If, you think the extra-large number of Tweets influenced Tump to release the memo I'd say you are probably wrong. Trump does what Trump wants. It also mean, thanks to this study, going forward no one will take Tweet blasts like this seriously. Not that politicians take large number of protesters seriously anyway. The largest anti-war protest ever took place just before Shock And Awe. How ineffectual was the Occupy protest? In spite of the numbers and media coverage, not very.

What was your point in sending me this link? Deebank already sent it to me and I responded earlier. I didn't need no stinkin' Tweet. From Nunes' own hype I was intrigued to see what was in the memo and hoped for its release. I also see how the Republicans are using partisan legal trickery to make their case. I also think the Steele Memo is probably true. Even Steele, from what I understand, only speculates that Putin was involved. I also speculate that the Russians - mafia or FSB - set up Dumb Donald when he came to Russia with flattery, pretty women and enticing business deals. Donald, the rich, famous and stupid American, took the bait and they got him on video somewhere. This was way before his Presidential bid so they had to have dug up Nostrodamus, Nosferatu and Svengali to predict he was going to run, let alone win the election.
Gadfly

User avatar
Snarfyguy
Dominated by the Obscure
Posts: 52563
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 19:04
Location: New York

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 09 Feb 2018, 14:38

Jimbo wrote:I also speculate that the Russians - mafia or FSB - set up Dumb Donald when he came to Russia with flattery, pretty women and enticing business deals. Donald, the rich, famous and stupid American, took the bait and they got him on video somewhere.

Okay, you're halfway there! :)

Might this explain why he hasn't signed the Russia sanctions bill (that Congress virtually universally approved) into law, or do you think it has more to do with Trump's noble, upstanding hope for international unity?
Jimbo wrote:Look, all I know is pretty much what I get from Robert Parry over at Consortium News.

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 14698
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 09 Feb 2018, 14:57

Snarfyguy wrote:
Jimbo wrote:I also speculate that the Russians - mafia or FSB - set up Dumb Donald when he came to Russia with flattery, pretty women and enticing business deals. Donald, the rich, famous and stupid American, took the bait and they got him on video somewhere.

Okay, you're halfway there! :)

Might this explain why he hasn't signed the Russia sanctions bill (that Congress virtually universally approved) into law, or do you think it has more to do with Trump's noble, upstanding hope for international unity?


What I had written was based upon what I had read about Steele's integrity and Trump's stupidity but it is still pure speculation on my part, as is your assumption that Trump didn't sign the sanctions bill because he is being blackmailed. It is Trumps right to not sign something so whatever you may think his motive was he was doing nothing illegal not signing the bill.

And Trump may not have signed the sanction bill but his administration did sanction Russian media sites RT and Sputnik and marked them as foreign agents. Not only that

At the end of January, the U.S. Treasury Department released the names of 210 alleged Kremlin insiders, including government ministers, who were being included on a list for possible sanctions, though it was also announced that no sanctions would be put in place pending further ongoing review of the behavior of those individuals under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act.

The so-called “Kremlin List” was clearly designed to put pressure on the inner circle of the Russian government as many of those named have major business ties with the United States and Western Europe that could be severely damaged through sanctions. The intention may have been to encourage those individuals to lessen their support for President Vladimir Putin in the upcoming Russian national elections on March 18.

The Kremlin List has significantly impacted internal Russian politics ahead of a major election and therefore could be seen as the U.S.’s own attempt at election-meddling. It comes on top of a British government claim that Moscow intends to rip British “infrastructure apart, actually cause thousands and thousands and thousands of deaths,” and create “total chaos within the country,” as well as a U.S. Senate report that alleges a two decade-long assault by Putin “on democratic institutions, universal values, and the rule of law across Europe and in his own country.”
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/02/09/r ... unes-memo/

Maybe weaker than the sanctions but still ballsy for a guy about to be exposed as a freak.
Gadfly

User avatar
Snarfyguy
Dominated by the Obscure
Posts: 52563
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 19:04
Location: New York

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 09 Feb 2018, 15:53

Jimbo wrote: It is Trumps right to not sign something so whatever you may think his motive was he was doing nothing illegal not signing the bill.

I never implied there was anything illegal about him not signing the bill. (Oddly, I don't recall hearing that he vetoed it either, even though my understanding is he only had 10 days to do so. I guess the idea is that Congress can't override his veto if the thing just sits on his desk forever? That doesn't seem right.)

Jimbo wrote:
The Kremlin List has significantly impacted internal Russian politics ahead of a major election and therefore could be seen as the U.S.’s own attempt at election-meddling.

Because Russia now has free and fair elections, LOL!

(The Economist classified it as an "authoritarian" State in 2016. https://www.yabiladi.com/img/content/EI ... x-2015.pdf)
Jimbo wrote:Look, all I know is pretty much what I get from Robert Parry over at Consortium News.

User avatar
Davey the Fat Boy
Posts: 23320
Joined: 05 Jan 2006, 02:55
Location: Applebees

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 09 Feb 2018, 16:19

Jimbo wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Hey Jimbo,

This seems like some pretty detailed investigative work (as opposed to your usual fare). Any thoughts about “computational propaganda” and twitter accounts like @KARYN19138585?:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politi ... emo-216935


But this back and forth masks the real point. Whether it is Republican or Russian or “Macedonian teenagers”—it doesn't really matter. It is computational propaganda—meaning artificially amplified and targeted for a specific purpose...


That let's Russia off the hook for this hack.


No it doesn’t. It simply acknowledges the fog being created in order to create plausible deniability. The point is: This is why we need investigation.
The opinions of this poster are subjective. That’s how opinions work.

Image

User avatar
Davey the Fat Boy
Posts: 23320
Joined: 05 Jan 2006, 02:55
Location: Applebees

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 09 Feb 2018, 16:20

Jimbo’s making me want WWIII with Russia.
The opinions of this poster are subjective. That’s how opinions work.

Image

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 14698
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 09 Feb 2018, 16:25

Snarfyguy wrote:
Jimbo wrote: It is Trumps right to not sign something so whatever you may think his motive was he was doing nothing illegal not signing the bill.

I never implied there was anything illegal about him not signing the bill. (Oddly, I don't recall hearing that he vetoed it either, even though my understanding is he only had 10 days to do so. I guess the idea is that Congress can't override his veto if the thing just sits on his desk forever? That doesn't seem right.)

Jimbo wrote:
The Kremlin List has significantly impacted internal Russian politics ahead of a major election and therefore could be seen as the U.S.’s own attempt at election-meddling.

Because Russia now has free and fair elections, LOL!

(The Economist classified it as an "authoritarian" State in 2016. https://www.yabiladi.com/img/content/EI ... x-2015.pdf)


Talk about me changing the subject.

Yeah, so? Is that any reason the US needs to meddle into Russia's elections, however they are run?

Is the Russian government so bad? It just struck me that "authoritarian" does not mean repressive - so that's not so horrible.

Is Russia a real democracy? It depends who you ask.

https://www.quora.com/Is-Russia-a-real-democracy-Why
Gadfly

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 14698
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 09 Feb 2018, 16:30

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
That let's Russia off the hook for this hack.


No it doesn’t. It simply acknowledges the fog being created in order to create plausible deniability. The point is: This is why we need investigation.


:roll: Reeeeeeeching ….

By all means let the investigation go on … unless Trump decides to fire Meuller, which - as you should appreciate as a by the book kind of guy - is his right to do as President.
Gadfly

User avatar
Davey the Fat Boy
Posts: 23320
Joined: 05 Jan 2006, 02:55
Location: Applebees

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 09 Feb 2018, 16:38

It’s not a reach.

The article isn’t equivocal about Russia being behind it. That paragraph is simply saying - even if terribly stupid people insist on debating that point - it still deserves our attention.

Much of your defense a few months ago was, “it was just a few Facebook ads and a few fake Twitter accounts.” Do you remember when the late-lamented Robert Parry used you as a puppet and made you say those words?

Well now you’ve got someone who did the work to show you how not accounts can amplify a meme.

What would Robert Parry say?
The opinions of this poster are subjective. That’s how opinions work.

Image