David Frum wrote:If Trump now reopens Govt, he visibly surrenders to Pelosi.
If Trump keeps Govt closed, he bleeds support faster. Workers miss next paycheck, air travel delays, govt services fail, and economy stalls.
Trump built the trap and walked into it. Pelosi just locked it behind him.
GoogaMooga wrote: The further away from home you go, the greater the risk of getting stuck there.
Snarfyguy wrote:David Frum wrote:If Trump now reopens Govt, he visibly surrenders to Pelosi.
If Trump keeps Govt closed, he bleeds support faster. Workers miss next paycheck, air travel delays, govt services fail, and economy stalls.
Trump built the trap and walked into it. Pelosi just locked it behind him.
I don't even like David Frum, but he's got a point.
Former acting solicitor general Neal Katyal told me that [Giuliani's comments] appear[] to be a tacit admission of serious vulnerability — as well as an effort to lay the groundwork for a last-ditch defense of Trump, should more come out. It also makes the nonstop claims that special counsel Robert S. Mueller III is leading a “witch hunt” look ridiculous.
“They’ve been saying for two years that this is a witch hunt,” Katyal told me. “As a lawyer, given the recent revelations, Giuliani now has to pivot and outline the next line of defense.”
“This is straight out of the organized-crime playbook,” Katyal continued. “The boss says, 'There was no conspiracy.’ Then prosecutors prove there was a conspiracy between your subordinates and a criminal organization. Then the defense shifts to, ‘Okay, there was a conspiracy, but the boss didn’t know anything about it.’”
To be clear, we’re presuming here that Giuliani said these things for a reason. We can’t know this — he is prone to strange and inexplicable outbursts — but if he did, it points to an endgame that Giuliani may be mulling for Trump.
Bob Bauer, the White House counsel under former president Barack Obama, told me that Giuliani “must have some continuing hope” that Mueller cannot prove Trump knew about the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting, which Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner and Manafort attended in the expectation of gaining dirt on Hillary Clinton produced by the Russian government.
In recent days, new revelations have surfaced. We have learned that after Trump fired James B. Comey as FBI director, the FBI launched a separate investigation into whether Trump was actively working on behalf of Russian interests. We now know Trump went to extraordinary lengths to conceal his communications with Russian President Vladimir Putin, even shielding them from his own top advisers.
We have also learned that Mueller is closely scrutinizing whether Trump was directly informed by longtime adviser Roger Stone of the latter’s advance knowledge of a coming dump of Russian-hacked Democratic emails.
If Mueller determines that the Trump Tower meeting constituted conspiracy, or if more comes out about that meeting or about other collusion we’ve already seen, or if still other conspiring that we don’t know about yet surfaces, Trump’s team will have to build a wall between that and Trump himself — which Giuliani is now doing.
“The insulation of Trump from the campaign is meant to remove him from the circle of any illegal conspiracy,” Bauer told me, adding that Giuliani is moving “to narrow the defense against collusion by arguing that the president is not responsible for what his campaign did.”
But this is a weak defense. It still remains to be seen what Trump knew about all the collusion, whether or not he actively participated in it. And we still don’t know what else Mueller has established. Giuliani’s defense signals he might be worried that still more is coming.
“If you’re the head of an organization, and you’re aware that your associates are conspiring, even if you weren’t the one doing the conspiring you could face criminal liability for it,” Katyal said. “Right now we have only the tip of the iceberg from Mueller. Giuliani may be starting to float a new defense in the event that there’s more damaging information on the conspiracy front coming out.”
GoogaMooga wrote: The further away from home you go, the greater the risk of getting stuck there.
1. November 2016: No communications, period
Hope Hicks: “It never happened. There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign.”
2. February 2017: There were no communications, “to the best of our knowledge”
Sarah Sanders: “This is a non-story because, to the best of our knowledge, no contacts took place.”
3. March 2017: There were communications, but no planned meetings with Russians
Donald Trump Jr.: “Did I meet with people that were Russian? I’m sure, I’m sure I did. . . . But none that were set up. None that I can think of at the moment. And certainly none that I was representing the campaign in any way, shape or form.”
4. July 8, 2017: There was a planned meeting at Trump Tower, but it was “primarily” about adoption and not the campaign
Trump Jr.: “We primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children that was active and popular with American families years ago and was since ended by the Russian government, but it was not a campaign issue at that time and there was no follow-up.”
5. July 9, 2017: The meeting was planned to discuss the campaign, but the information exchanged wasn't “meaningful”
Trump Jr.: “No details or supporting information was provided or even offered. It quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information.”
6. December 2017: Collusion isn't even a crime
President Trump: “There is no collusion, and even if there was, it’s not a crime.”
Jay Sekulow: “For something to be a crime, there has to be a statute that you claim is being violated. There is not a statute that refers to criminal collusion. There is no crime of collusion.”
(Technically speaking, the criminal code doesn't use the word “collusion,” but it's generally understood as a broad term that could encompass more specific, codified crimes. And even special counsel Robert S. Mueller III's team has used it in court filings.)
7. May 16, 2018: Even if meaningful information were obtained, it wasn't used
Giuliani: “And even if it comes from a Russian, or a German, or an American, it doesn’t matter. And they never used it, is the main thing. They never used it. They rejected it. If there was collusion with the Russians, they would have used it.”
[One thing, Rudy Giuliani: The Trump campaign *did* use it.]
8. May 19, 2018: There was a *second* planned meeting about foreign help in the election, but nothing came of it either
The New York Times reported Sunday on yet another meeting about getting foreign help with the 2016 election. This one came three months before the election and featured Donald Trump Jr. and an emissary, George Nader, who said the princes who lead Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates wanted to assist Trump.
Alan Futerfas, Trump Jr.'s attorney: "They pitched Mr. Trump Jr. on a social media platform or marketing strategy. He was not interested, and that was the end of it.”
9. July 16, 2018: Trump couldn't collude, because Trump didn't even know Putin
Trump: "There was no collusion. I didn't know the president. There was nobody to collude with."
10. July 30, 2018: Collusion isn't a crime, and Trump wasn't physically at the Trump Tower meeting
With Michael Cohen alleging that Trump knew about the Trump Tower meeting in real time — despite many previous denials — Giuliani told both CNN and Fox News that Trump wasn't physically at the meeting.
"I’m happy to tell Mueller that Trump wasn’t at the Trump Tower meeting,” Giuliani told CNN, adding that "Don Jr. says he wasn’t there.”
He added on Fox: “He did not participate in any meeting about the Russia transaction. . . . And the other people at the meeting that he claims he had without the president about it say he was never there.”
Giuliani also argued that collusion isn't even a crime.
Aaron Rupar
✔
@atrupar
· Jul 30, 2018
Replying to @atrupar
GIULIANI on MANAFORT trial: "He has no information incriminating of the president. I know that for a fact. They can squeeze him -- he doesn't know anything. He was with him for four months."
GIULIANI argues ***collusion is not a crime***: "I don't even know if that's a crime -- colluding with Russians. Hacking is the crime. The president didn't hack! He didn't pay for the hacking." pic.twitter.com/QMenE1qzxx
“I don’t even know if that’s a crime — colluding with Russians,” Giuliani said on CNN. “Hacking is the crime. The president didn’t hack. He didn’t pay for the hacking.”
And on Fox: “I have been sitting here looking in the federal code trying to find collusion as a crime. Collusion is not a crime.”
11. January 16, 2019: Trump didn’t collude, but no guarantees on others in the campaign
The exchange with Cuomo:
GIULIANI: I never said there was no collusion between the campaign or between people in the campaign --
CUOMO: Yes, you have.
GIULIANI: I have no idea -- I have not. I said the president of the United States. There is not a single bit of evidence the president of the United States committed the only crime you could commit here -- conspired with the Russians to hack the DNC.
CUOMO: First of all, crime is not the bar of accountability for a president. It’s about what you knew --
GIULIANI: Well, he didn’t collude with Russia either!
CUOMO: -- what was right, and what was wrong, and what did you deceive about? Those are going to be major considerations.
GIULIANI: The president did not collude with the Russians.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: He said nobody had any contact, tons of people had contact. Nobody colluded, the guy running his campaign --
GIULIANI: He didn’t say nobody --
CUOMO: -- was working on an issue at the same time as the convention.
GIULIANI: He said he didn’t. He didn’t say nobody. How would you know that nobody in your campaign --
CUOMO: He actually did say that, Rudy. He said, nobody, and then he said, as far as I know.
(CROSSTALK)
GIULIANI: Well, as far as he knows, it’s true.
GoogaMooga wrote: The further away from home you go, the greater the risk of getting stuck there.
David Frum wrote:Trump built the trap and walked into it. Pelosi just locked it behind him.
GoogaMooga wrote: The further away from home you go, the greater the risk of getting stuck there.
Count Machuki wrote:Cohen maybe says Trump directed him to lie to Congress?
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ja ... =bfnsplash
GoogaMooga wrote: The further away from home you go, the greater the risk of getting stuck there.
Snarfyguy wrote:Count Machuki wrote:Cohen maybe says Trump directed him to lie to Congress?
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ja ... =bfnsplash
The charge appears to have multiple reliable sources and Trump's own AG pick testified earlier this week that if a president suborns perjury or induces a witness to change his testimony, he's committing the crime of obstruction of justice.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/01/ ... zfeed.html
Matt Wilson wrote:You'll be defending him to the end, won't you Jimbo?
Count Machuki wrote:Lying to Congress* is plenty enough to be a high crime or misdemeanor, I'd say.
Jimbo wrote:Snarfyguy wrote:Count Machuki wrote:Cohen maybe says Trump directed him to lie to Congress?
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ja ... =bfnsplash
The charge appears to have multiple reliable sources and Trump's own AG pick testified earlier this week that if a president suborns perjury or induces a witness to change his testimony, he's committing the crime of obstruction of justice.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/01/ ... zfeed.html
Where's the collusion?
GoogaMooga wrote: The further away from home you go, the greater the risk of getting stuck there.
Sneelock wrote:remember, TRUMP blew a gasket when the FBI impounded all Cohen's computers & phones and stuff.
it is very likely that they have recordings of him telling Cohen to lie and do illegal things.
GoogaMooga wrote: The further away from home you go, the greater the risk of getting stuck there.
