President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Geezee
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Geezee » 12 Jan 2018, 09:52

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:http://www.dictionary.com/browse/authoritarianism

Look up the entire definition. Under adjective #1 it says: “favoring complete obedience or subjection to authority as opposed to individual freedom.”

Under noun #1 it says: “a person who favors or acts according to authoritarian principles.”

You are wrong.


Well, I'll be damned. And I am sorry - I genuinely did not know. But to put this in context - in 6 years of studying political theory, and over 17 years of working either for a political risk consultancy or a human rights organisation, the difference between an authoritarian President versus one with authoritarian tendencies was a critical point of distinction (and deeply embedded into our editorial guidelines).

I suppose I didn't account for the fact that while political concepts are entirely dumbed down in mainstream political discourse to the point where they lose their original meaning, it doesn't necessarily make them inaccurate. :evil: ;)
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 12 Jan 2018, 12:53

It's been about two weeks since this broke but you've heard by how now among Trump supporters it is the FBI which is suspected of criminal behavior, especially when it comes to Agent Peter Strzok (pronounced “struck”) and his fellow agent and paramour, FBI lawyer Lisa Page, how they exchanged emails which were mildly anti-Turmp in tone but no matter how banal the conservative Trump lovers screamed foul; the FBI can not be objective in the matter of investigating Trump and is criminally covering up for these two Hillary lovers. I dismissed the criticism as OTT conservative drivel for even when you work for the government you are still allowed to have a political stance; you just can't let your opinion effect your work. But then I read this. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/01/11/t ... ssia-gate/ Strzok wan not just an agent he was "the FBI’s chief of counterespionage during the investigation into then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s unauthorized use of a personal email server for classified information" and "(t)hen, as Deputy Assistant Director of the Counterintelligence Division, Strzok led the FBI’s investigation into alleged Russian interference in the U.S. election of 2016." Get the whole story by clicking on the link and I will close this to show how this FBI honcho and his FBI lover's views were more than mild criticisms of Trump.

Sample text messages between Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, released to Congress and the media on December 13, 2016

++++++++++++++

03/04/2016

Strzok – God Hillary should win. 100,000,000-0.

Page – I know

++++++++++++

04/02/2016

Page – So look, you say we text on that phone when we talk about Hillary because it can’t be traced, you were just venting, bc you feel bad that you’re gone so much but that can’t be helped right now.

++++++++++

07/08/2016

Strzok – And meanwhile, we have Black Lives Matter protestors, right now, chanting “no justice no peace” around DoJ and the White House…

Page – That’s awful.

+++++++++

07/14/2016

Page – Have you read this? It’s really frightening. For Whites Sensing Decline, Donald Trump Unleashes Words of Resistance http://NYTI/ms/29WCu5!

Strzok – I have not. But I think it’s clear he’s capturing all the white, poor voters who the mainstream republicans abandoned in all but name in the quest for the almighty $$$

Page – Yeah, it’s not good.

Strzok – Poll Finds Emails Weighing on Hillary Clinton, Now Tied With Donald Trump http://nyti.ms/29RV5gf

Page – It is

+++++++++++++

07/26/2016

Strzok – And hey. Congrats on a woman nominated for President in a major party! About damn time! Many many more returns of the day!!

Page – That’s cute. Thanks

++++++++++

08/06/2016

Page – Jesus. You should read this. And Trump should go f himself. Moment in Convention Glare Shakes Up Khans American Life http://nyti.ms/2aHulE0

Strzok – God that’s a great article. Thanks for sharing. And F TRUMP.

++++++++

08/06/2016

Page – And maybe you’re meant to stay where you are because you’re meant to protect the country from that menace. To that end comma, read this:

Page – Trump Enablers Will Finally Have to Take A Stand http://nyti.ms/2aFakry

Strzok – Thanks. It’s absolutely true that we’re both very fortunate. And of course I’ll try and approach it that way. I just know it will be tough at times. I can protect our country at many levels, not sure if that helps

++++++++++++

08/09/2016

Page – He’s not ever going to become president, right? Right?!

Strzok – OMG did you hear what Trump just said?

+++++++++++

08/26/2016

Strzok – Just went to a southern Virginia Walmart. I could SMELL the Trump support…

Page – Yep. Out to lunch with (redacted) We both hate everyone and everything.

Page – Just riffing on the hot mess that is our country.

Strzok – Yeah…it’s scary real down here

+++++++++

10/20/2016

Strzok: I am riled up. Trump is a f***ing idiot, is unable to provide a coherent answer.

Strzok – I CAN’T PULL AWAY, WHAT THE F**K HAPPENED TO OUR COUNTRY (redacted)??!?!

Page– I don’t know. But we’ll get it back. We’re America. We rock.

Strzok– Donald just said “bad hombres”

Strzok– Trump just said what the FBI did is disgraceful.

END
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 12 Jan 2018, 13:39

Geezee wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:http://www.dictionary.com/browse/authoritarianism

Look up the entire definition. Under adjective #1 it says: “favoring complete obedience or subjection to authority as opposed to individual freedom.”

Under noun #1 it says: “a person who favors or acts according to authoritarian principles.”

You are wrong.


Well, I'll be damned. And I am sorry - I genuinely did not know. But to put this in context - in 6 years of studying political theory, and over 17 years of working either for a political risk consultancy or a human rights organisation, the difference between an authoritarian President versus one with authoritarian tendencies was a critical point of distinction (and deeply embedded into our editorial guidelines).

I suppose I didn't account for the fact that while political concepts are entirely dumbed down in mainstream political discourse to the point where they lose their original meaning, it doesn't necessarily make them inaccurate. :evil: ;)


Yeah...the dictionary is for idiots.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 12 Jan 2018, 14:02

Jimbo wrote: I dismissed the criticism as OTT conservative drivel for even when you work for the government you are still allowed to have a political stance; you just can't let your opinion effect your work. But then I read this. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/01/11/t ... ind-russia



Boy...the more Parry articles you post, the more headscratching it becomes that anyone takes him seriously.

Where’s the evidence in that article? It’s full of innuendo and Parry’s interpretation of what might have happened, but how many stories can this supposedly great “investigative journalist” be excused for that feature no investigative journalism?

Any discussion of 2016 election bias at the FBI has to account for Comey’s unprecedented statements castigating Clinton when concluding their investigation and his letter regarding the Weiner messages just days before the election. If there was Clinton bias at the FBI, they had a strange way of showing it. A lot of credible political scientists would argue that they pretty definitively threw the election to Trump. Parry leaves all of that out of his counter narrative.

Anyhow - here’s an article on the same subject by actual journalists rather than by a propagandist:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanity ... goated/amp

The New York field office held Clinton and Trump in nearly equal disdain. “In 2016, the New York agents thought Hillary is corrupt and Trump is crazy—he’s in New York and they know him well,” a top veteran of the city’s office said. “So in the primary there was a majority of agents for Bernie Sanders.”
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby LeBaron » 12 Jan 2018, 14:10

It was newly horrifying to hear reports that the President actually spoke his mind, laying bare his ignorance, animus, and bald racism. This isn’t really surprising, but somehow it is. And it feels like a new low. :(
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Toby » 12 Jan 2018, 14:13

It's got to the point where I just ignore it now unfortunately. The President is an incorrigible dick. Who knew?

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Geezee » 12 Jan 2018, 14:25

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
Geezee wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:http://www.dictionary.com/browse/authoritarianism

Look up the entire definition. Under adjective #1 it says: “favoring complete obedience or subjection to authority as opposed to individual freedom.”

Under noun #1 it says: “a person who favors or acts according to authoritarian principles.”

You are wrong.


Well, I'll be damned. And I am sorry - I genuinely did not know. But to put this in context - in 6 years of studying political theory, and over 17 years of working either for a political risk consultancy or a human rights organisation, the difference between an authoritarian President versus one with authoritarian tendencies was a critical point of distinction (and deeply embedded into our editorial guidelines).

I suppose I didn't account for the fact that while political concepts are entirely dumbed down in mainstream political discourse to the point where they lose their original meaning, it doesn't necessarily make them inaccurate. :evil: ;)


Yeah...the dictionary is for idiots.


Well indeed - you can't spell dictionary without idiocy.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Harvey K-Tel » 12 Jan 2018, 14:31

Toby wrote:It's got to the point where I just ignore it now unfortunately. The President is an incorrigible dick. Who knew?


Yeah, I'm not really sure that I need to even open Twitter today, 'cause I know exactly what my feed will be full of.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 12 Jan 2018, 14:59

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
Anyhow - here’s an article on the same subject by actual journalists rather than by a propagandist:


:roll:

Strzok reportedly changed the words “grossly negligent” (which could have triggered legal prosecution) to the far less serious “extremely careless” in FBI Director James Comey’s depiction of Clinton’s actions
.

I've heard and seen this tidbit batted around in a number of other podcasts and articles but not in your VF article. Admittedly the quote does contain the word "reportedly," but if it is true, if Hillary had been found “grossly negligent,” "What Happened?" would be a different book. But your article doesn't even address this point, not even to debunk it which is telling because this is the big one for the Trumpers and one HRC fans would like to avoid.

And if Strzok were the boy scout depicted in the VF article, there still were those virulently anti-Trump emails.

And the VF article says that the NYC agents disliked both HRC and Trump and mostly preferred Berie but there was one agent whose emails showed that he liked HRC - a lot.

FYI, Parry did not write this. Ray McGovern did.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 12 Jan 2018, 15:27

My bad on Parry. I see “Consortium News” and think of him now. Especially when the same tropes come out.

I don’t know how the language was crafted in the Clinton rebuke. But it’s important to realize that the FBI was out of line making ANY rebukes all. Their job is to determine whether there is grounds for a criminal case or not. It’s not their job to make a public statement castigating people they aren’t going to prosecute. The FBI is ultimately law enforcement. They aren’t judges, and they shouldn’t be in the business of “finding” anyone grossly negligent OR extremely careless before that person has had their day in court. They don’t hand down verdicts. That’s why Comey’s statement was so improper: He took it upon himself to hang a verdict on Clinton without her having any recourse to make a case in her own favor.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 12 Jan 2018, 15:32

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:My bad on Parry. I see “Consortium News” and think of him now. Especially when the same tropes come out.

I don’t know how the language was crafted in the Clinton rebuke. But it’s important to realize that the FBI was out of line making ANY rebukes all. Their job is to determine whether there is grounds for a criminal case or not. It’s not their job to make a public statement castigating people they aren’t going to prosecute. The FBI is ultimately law enforcement. They aren’t judges, and they shouldn’t be in the business of “finding” anyone grossly negligent OR extremely careless before that person has had their day in court. They don’t hand down verdicts. That’s why Comey’s statement was so improper: He took it upon himself to hang a verdict on Clinton without her having any recourse to make a case in her own favor.



What was the ostensible reason for Comey to pronounce Hillary's "guilt" so publicly?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Insouciant Western People » 12 Jan 2018, 15:34

Toby wrote:It's got to the point where I just ignore it now unfortunately. The President is an incorrigible dick. Who knew?


And one of the favourite pastimes of him and his supporters is watching people throw up their hands and shriek every time he does something tediously and predictably 'outrageous'.

Trump is a troll, as well as a crass, ignorant fool. Ignoring him is the best policy.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 12 Jan 2018, 15:42

Coincidentally, Davey, I just clicked on the OffGuardian alt. news site and there was a new article describing a Wikileaks provided confidential US government document that was found on Anthony Weiner's laptop exonerating Assange of the original rape charges and the article was hip enough to include this.

Correction: The document is about the Swedish Pirate Party and how Assange would be a notable supporter. Soon after he was arrested on trumped up rape charges. The writer supposes this was a conspiracy to keep Assange's support out of the race.

The emergence of this confidential document (found on Anthony Weiner’s laptop and sent while his wife, Huma Abedin, was Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s Deputy Chief of Staff), is disturbing – as it potentially implicates the Obama administration in a conspiracy to silence Julian Assange while Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State – not to mention that it could be the smoking gun in yet another clear case of mishandled information found on imprisoned sexual deviant Anthony Weiner’s laptop the FBI’s Peter Strzok and crew must have somehow overlooked.
https://off-guardian.org/2018/01/10/wei ... s-warning/

I think your Vanity Fair article is the obfuscating, biased and pro-Hillary agenda deal.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sneelock » 12 Jan 2018, 16:15

Nick wrote:Trump is a troll, as well as a crass, ignorant fool. Ignoring him is the best policy.


While I've been paying attention, just this past week, he's extended FISA & pushed for a work requirement for Medicare.
I hate to think what he'd be up to if I was ignoring him.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 12 Jan 2018, 16:28

Jimbo wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:My bad on Parry. I see “Consortium News” and think of him now. Especially when the same tropes come out.

I don’t know how the language was crafted in the Clinton rebuke. But it’s important to realize that the FBI was out of line making ANY rebukes all. Their job is to determine whether there is grounds for a criminal case or not. It’s not their job to make a public statement castigating people they aren’t going to prosecute. The FBI is ultimately law enforcement. They aren’t judges, and they shouldn’t be in the business of “finding” anyone grossly negligent OR extremely careless before that person has had their day in court. They don’t hand down verdicts. That’s why Comey’s statement was so improper: He took it upon himself to hang a verdict on Clinton without her having any recourse to make a case in her own favor.



What was the ostensible reason for Comey to pronounce Hillary's "guilt" so publicly?


You tell me. But whatever explanation you give, please make sure it accounts for how choosing to ignore FBI policy against such pronouncements folds into your narrative of them being pro-Clinton.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Samoan » 12 Jan 2018, 16:29

Nick wrote:
Toby wrote:It's got to the point where I just ignore it now unfortunately. The President is an incorrigible dick. Who knew?


And one of the favourite pastimes of him and his supporters is watching people throw up their hands and shriek every time he does something tediously and predictably 'outrageous'.

Trump is a troll, as well as a crass, ignorant fool. Ignoring him is the best policy.

I've no idea what's going on with him supratentorially but apart from a slight interest when Wolff's book came out, I've also put him on Ignore.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 12 Jan 2018, 16:31

Sneelock wrote:
Nick wrote:Trump is a troll, as well as a crass, ignorant fool. Ignoring him is the best policy.


While I've been paying attention, just this past week, he's extended FISA & pushed for a work requirement for Medicare.
I hate to think what he'd be up to if I was ignoring him.


To the extent that he’s capable of a strategy - pushing us all into outrage fatigue appears to be his main one.

He’s crossed all kinds of lines that used to be red lines. But he seems to have realized that if you cross a lot of lines at once (and do it again tomorrow), people stop holding you accountable.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 12 Jan 2018, 17:02

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:



What was the ostensible reason for Comey to pronounce Hillary's "guilt" so publicly?


You tell me. But whatever explanation you give, please make sure it accounts for how choosing to ignore FBI policy against such pronouncements folds into your narrative of them being pro-Clinton.


I thought you knew. I googled it and there are guesses out there but seemingly no concrete answer, except for the guy below. As for HRC favoritism, it seems her biggest and maybe only fan in the FBI was - luckily - the guy in charge of investigating her, Strzuk. Strzuk couldn't stop Comey from making the announcement but he did what he could to soften the blow.


Guilty as Sin: Uncovering New Evidence of Corruption and How Hillary Clinton and the Democrats Derailed the FBI Investigation Hardcover – October 4, 2016

An exciting new book from #1 New York Times bestselling author Edward Klein!
When FBI Director James Comey announced in July that Hillary Clinton would not be indicted for mishandling classified information, America was stunned.

Had the scandal-happy Clintons escaped justice once again? Not so fast, says investigative reporter and bestselling author Ed Klein. There is far more behind Comey's shocking press conference than meets the eye -- and a minefield of email evidence between Hillary and the White House.

In his astonishing new book, Klein uncovers the real story behind Hillary's email scandals and the dirty political games that have kept her one step ahead of the law - for now. Klein reveals what the FBI's team of 150+ investigators really found on Clinton's server. How Comey originally threatened to resign over White House attempts to intervene in the investigation, and his secret plan to go around the Justice Department if needed. How an unprecedented Congressional investigation during an election year is uncovering new shocking evidence of corruption on a level some would call treason. And what Bill and Hillary still have left in their bag of tricks in their desperate quest to get back into the Oval Office.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 12 Jan 2018, 17:31

Oh, this Edward Klein. . .

From Wikipedia

Criticism
Klein received extensive criticism for his 2005 biography of Hillary Clinton, The Truth About Hillary. Politico criticized the book for "serious factual errors, truncated and distorted quotes and overall themes [that] don't gibe with any other serious accounts of Clinton's life." The conservative columnist John Podhoretz criticized the book in the New York Post, "Thirty pages into it, I wanted to take a shower. Sixty pages into it, I wanted to be decontaminated. And 200 pages into it, I wanted someone to drive stakes through my eyes so I wouldn't have to suffer through another word." In the National Review, conservative columnist James Geraghty wrote, “Folks, there are plenty of arguments against Hillary Clinton, her policies, her views, her proposals, and her philosophies. This stuff ain’t it. Nobody on the right, left, or center ought to stoop to this level.”

Kathryn Jean Lopez of National Review asked Klein in a June 20, 2005 interview, "Why on earth would you put such a terrible story in your book...that looks to be flimsily sourced at that?," regarding his suggestion that Chelsea Clinton was conceived in an act of marital rape. Facing criticism from both the left and right for making the claim, Klein eventually backed away from the insinuation in an interview with radio host Jim Bohannon on June 23, 2005.

The British newspaper The Guardian pointed out a number of verifiable factual errors in Klein's 2014 book Blood Feud.

Questions of credibility of sources in work
Klein has also come under fire for his use of anonymous quotes, purported to be from the subjects of his books, which he claims he received from anonymous insiders. The credibility of such quotes has been questioned by writers such as Joe Conason, Salon's Simon Malloy and conservative commentators Rush Limbaugh and Peggy Noonan. "Some of the quotes strike me as odd, in the sense that I don't know people who speak this way," Limbaugh said of Klein's work, describing the sources as "grade school chatter."
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Insouciant Western People » 12 Jan 2018, 17:33

Sneelock wrote:
Nick wrote:Trump is a troll, as well as a crass, ignorant fool. Ignoring him is the best policy.


While I've been paying attention, just this past week, he's extended FISA & pushed for a work requirement for Medicare.
I hate to think what he'd be up to if I was ignoring him.


I should have phrased it better. What I meant was, people should stop letting him push their buttons with his stupid, willfully-outrageous statements and his Tweets. I wasn't referring to policy and government.
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