President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 05 Jan 2018, 16:35

Geezee wrote:It's not bona fide that is problematic (thought i only reinforces the issue). It is the characterisation of the presidency of authoritarian. Which it is not. Hitler was most definitely a fascist the night before the decree. He was not, however, an authoritarian chancellor.


:roll:

Since we are being pedantic here - I never characterized his Presidency as authoritarian. I characterized HIM as AN authoritarian.

Hitler’s reign probably couldn’t rightly be called fascist until the Reichstag fire - but he already was a fascist. Same here.


Geezee wrote:
I would apologise if i was wrong. But as far as I can tell I wasn't - you were mischaracterising Trump as an authoritarian president, and from the beginning there was a contradiction there which is all that i was highlighting.


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Last edited by Davey the Fat Boy on 05 Jan 2018, 16:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Goat Boy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Goat Boy » 05 Jan 2018, 16:40

sloopjohnc wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:I apologize for being short with you, but you could defuse that easily by admitting that you’re wrong here so that we can move forward. If the semantics of “bona-fide” can matter to you, then the semantics of “that’s not what you said” can matter to me.


This made me laugh.

You do know where you are, don't you?

When has anyone ever admitted her or she is wrong on BCB?


The irony of Davey saying that as well. Oh boy.

What a world

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sneelock » 05 Jan 2018, 16:45

I was wrong about bell bottom pants and I’m man enough to admit it.
Last edited by sneelock on 05 Jan 2018, 16:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 05 Jan 2018, 16:45

Goat Boy wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:I apologize for being short with you, but you could defuse that easily by admitting that you’re wrong here so that we can move forward. If the semantics of “bona-fide” can matter to you, then the semantics of “that’s not what you said” can matter to me.


This made me laugh.

You do know where you are, don't you?

When has anyone ever admitted her or she is wrong on BCB?


The irony of Davey saying that as well. Oh boy.


Made it even funnier.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 05 Jan 2018, 16:45

toomanyhatz wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:When has anyone ever admitted her or she is wrong on BCB?


"Thought I made a mistake once. Turned out I hadn't."


:lol:
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 05 Jan 2018, 16:47

sloopjohnc wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:
This made me laugh.

You do know where you are, don't you?

When has anyone ever admitted her or she is wrong on BCB?


The irony of Davey saying that as well. Oh boy.


Made it even funnier.


Et tu sloop?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Goat Boy » 05 Jan 2018, 16:48

Sneelock wrote:I was wrong about bell bottom pants and I’m man enough to admit it.


*sniff* that took guts man

#Sneelock4ever
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 05 Jan 2018, 16:51

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Et tu sloop?


It's part of your attraction. Like secreted pheromones.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Geezee » 05 Jan 2018, 18:02

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
Geezee wrote:It's not bona fide that is problematic (thought i only reinforces the issue). It is the characterisation of the presidency of authoritarian. Which it is not. Hitler was most definitely a fascist the night before the decree. He was not, however, an authoritarian chancellor.


:roll:

Since we are being pedantic here - I never characterized his Presidency as authoritarian. I characterized HIM as AN authoritarian.

Hitler’s reign probably couldn’t rightly be called fascist until the Reichstag fire - but he already was a fascist. Same here.


Geezee wrote:
I would apologise if i was wrong. But as far as I can tell I wasn't - you were mischaracterising Trump as an authoritarian president, and from the beginning there was a contradiction there which is all that i was highlighting.




Pedantic - almost certainly, but I also think it's a very important distinction. And either way I'm assuming that by now you are deliberately just ignoring your mistake - by using the terminoloy "bone fide authoritarian President" you are explicitly characterising his Presidency as authoritarian. And yes, Hitler was a fascist from the beginning, because fascism is a political ideology, authoritarianism is a description of a state of government where political diversity is absent. The words can't be used interchangeably - before the decree (and subsequent escalation of his power) he was a fascist ruler (ie one driven by fascist ideology), but not an authoritarian one (ie one who wields strong central power). You can say that Trump aspires to be an authoritarian president, not that he is one (or even a failed one).
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 05 Jan 2018, 18:45

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/authoritarianism

Look up the entire definition. Under adjective #1 it says: “favoring complete obedience or subjection to authority as opposed to individual freedom.”

Under noun #1 it says: “a person who favors or acts according to authoritarian principles.”

You are wrong.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Harvey K-Tel » 05 Jan 2018, 20:16

Invigorating!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Copehead » 05 Jan 2018, 20:29

Geezee wrote:[
All that you have done is highlight more clearly your own contradiction which I had already highlighted. You can't have it both ways - you can't say that he is a "bone fide authoritarian President" and then say that actually he hasn't been able implement anything authoritarian, through incompetence or otherwise.


I think you can.

I think it is fairly obvious that he is making authoritarian policy decisions that are being stymied by his, and people's, incompetence.
But behind the scenes they are working to dismantle some of the checks curbing his ability to make policy on the hoof; like stuffing federal Judges benches with under-qualified placement.

Once again people are having an enormous spat over semantics.

But it seems obvious to me being unsuccessful doesn't make him less of an authoritarian President because the intent is most obviously there
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby toomanyhatz » 05 Jan 2018, 20:34

Davey's pov defended by Copehead shock-horror! :lol:

Of course, arguing semantics is what we do.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 05 Jan 2018, 21:16

toomanyhatz wrote:Davey's pov defended by Copehead shock-horror! :lol:


It helps that the POV in question is correct.

The rest of you all know that too.
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toomanyhatz
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby toomanyhatz » 05 Jan 2018, 21:23

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:Davey's pov defended by Copehead shock-horror! :lol:


It helps that the POV in question is correct.


It helps you get Copehead's support? It's never worked that way in the past! :P
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 05 Jan 2018, 21:28

It's one of the reasons I log off on here sometimes. People take stuff way too seriously and I don't like falling into that trap. Why does everyone on here have to convince people that they're right all the time?

Human behavior tends to be like water and is drawn to its lowest level and I have a tendency to fall into that trap too.

I think I'll stay away from this thread awhile until you goofballs hash this thing out.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 05 Jan 2018, 21:33

I think Cope and I have been getting along pretty well lately. We disagree on a lot of things, but I think we both are able to stick to the topic at hand most of the time.

By contrast, Goat Boy wants my attention so badly he can’t keep from making me the issue - even when he actually agrees with what I’m saying. Then the rest of you bray along for whatever reason.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 05 Jan 2018, 21:44

sloopjohnc wrote:It's one of the reasons I log off on here sometimes. People take stuff way too seriously and I don't like falling into that trap. Why does everyone on here have to convince people that they're right all the time?

Human behavior tends to be like water and is drawn to its lowest level and I have a tendency to fall into that trap too.

I think I'll stay away from this thread awhile until you goofballs hash this thing out.


I don’t actually care so much about being right. I’m fine with agreeing to disagree. What annoyed me here was being told that I’d changed my argument when I clearly hadn’t.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sneelock » 05 Jan 2018, 22:10

Yes you did. ;)
Will you be having the 5 minute argument or the full half hour?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 05 Jan 2018, 22:46

Feck off!
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