President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Jimbo
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 18 Apr 2017, 22:44

NYT Mocks Skepticism on Syria-Sarin Claims
April 18, 2017

Exclusive: The New York Times and other major media have ruled out any further skepticism toward the U.S. government’s claim that Syrian President Assad dropped a sarin bomb on a town in Idlib province, reports Robert Parry.

By Robert Parry

In the old days of journalism, we were taught that there were almost always two sides to a story, if not more sides than that. Indeed, part of the professional challenge of journalism was to sort out conflicting facts on a complicated topic. Often we found that the initial impression of a story was wrong once we understood the more nuanced reality.

Today, however, particularly on foreign policy issues, the major U.S. news outlets, such as The New York Times and The Washington Post, apparently believe there is only one side to a story, the one espoused by the U.S. government or more generically the Establishment.

Any other interpretation of a set of facts gets dismissed as “fringe” or “fake news” even if there are obvious holes in the official story and a lack of verifiable proof to support the mainstream groupthink. Very quickly, alternative explanations are cast aside while ridicule is heaped on those who disagree.

So, for instance, The New York Times will no longer allow any doubt to creep in about its certainty that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad intentionally dropped a sarin bomb on the remote rebel-held town of Khan Sheikhoun in Idlib province in northern Syria on April 4….

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/04/18/n ... in-claims/

And it pains me to see Bernie Sanders falling into the big MSM vat of bullshit only to come up with this statement on his website:

“In a world of vicious dictators, Syria’s Bashar Assad tops the list as a dictator who has killed hundreds of thousands of his own citizens to protect his own power and wealth. His regime’s use of chemical weapons against the men, women and children of his country, in violation of all international conventions and moral standards, makes him a war criminal."

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toomanyhatz
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby toomanyhatz » 18 Apr 2017, 23:00

Uh oh. Jimbo's off Bernie. It's gotten serious.

And you know better than him, I suppose? Where do you come upon this knowledge?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Still Baron » 18 Apr 2017, 23:04

Dave Barry said so
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 18 Apr 2017, 23:11

toomanyhatz wrote:Uh oh. Jimbo's off Bernie. It's gotten serious.

And you know better than him, I suppose? Where do you come upon this knowledge?


Do you not see the hyperbole in the Sanders statement with not a whiff of nuance? For that alone I call bullshit, but that goes along with all the reporting I've heard and read that Assad is not the dictator Bernie thinks he is.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby toomanyhatz » 18 Apr 2017, 23:44

Considering a lot of your 9-11 rhetoric is based on finding it more likely that the Bush White House would oversee destroying 2 gigantic buildings via planted explosives than the combination of a well-trained Al Qaeda and an inept president could pull off planes flying into it destroying the WTC, I don't figure nuance is your strong point.

But if it were me, I'd be asking more questions rather than question whether or not Assad is not that bad. What is Bernie recommending? Dropping bombs? Sending in ground troops? Just saying that Assad's a ruthless dictator when he's probably seen plenty of intelligence reports that I haven't, I don't see what my motivation would be to object. Robert Parry certainly doesn't have any credibility with me.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby zoomboogity » 18 Apr 2017, 23:45

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"Quite."

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 19 Apr 2017, 14:44

Why Hillary Clinton Really Lost
April 19, 2017

Exclusive: An insider book on Campaign 2016 reveals a paranoid Hillary Clinton who spied on staff emails after losing in 2008 and carried her political dysfunction into her loss to Donald Trump, writes Robert Parry.


By Robert Parry

An early insider account of Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, entitled Shattered, reveals a paranoid presidential candidate who couldn’t articulate why she wanted to be President and who oversaw an overconfident and dysfunctional operation that failed to project a positive message or appeal to key voting groups.

Okay, I realize that people who have been watching Rachel Maddow and other MSNBC programs – as well as reading The New York Times and The Washington Post for the past four months – “know” that Clinton ran a brilliant campaign that was only derailed because of “Russian meddling.” But this insider account from reporters Jonathan Allen and Annie Parnes describes something else….

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/04/19/w ... ally-lost/
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby zoomboogity » 19 Apr 2017, 16:38

Jimbo wrote:a paranoid presidential candidate who couldn’t articulate why she wanted to be President and who oversaw an overconfident and dysfunctional operation that failed to project a positive message or appeal to key voting groups.


None of which was obvious to anyone halfway paying attention. Thank goodness to these "insider accounts"! Especially the "early" ones.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby The Great Defector » 19 Apr 2017, 16:42

Jimbo wrote:a paranoid presidential candidate who couldn’t articulate why she wanted to be President and who oversaw an overconfident and dysfunctional operation that failed to project a positive message or appeal to key voting groups.


In fairness, one of the best descriptions of Hillary Clinton I've read.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 19 Apr 2017, 17:11

zoomboogity wrote:
Jimbo wrote:a paranoid presidential candidate who couldn’t articulate why she wanted to be President and who oversaw an overconfident and dysfunctional operation that failed to project a positive message or appeal to key voting groups.


None of which was obvious to anyone halfway paying attention. Thank goodness to these "insider accounts"! Especially the "early" ones.


I posted this mostly to piss off Davey and for the part which says it wasn't Russia who fucked up her shot.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby zoomboogity » 19 Apr 2017, 17:17

I wasn't ragging on you, Jimbo, I just gt a laugh out of the way these people write - "early" report, five months after the election? At this rate, we'll be getting a "comprehensive" report by 2047 that Hillary Clinton has a quick temper. Allegedly.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby toomanyhatz » 19 Apr 2017, 17:58

Okay, I realize that people who have been watching Rachel Maddow and other MSNBC programs – as well as reading The New York Times and The Washington Post for the past four months – “know” that Clinton ran a brilliant campaign that was only derailed because of “Russian meddling.”


This is the part that's bullshit. I don't know a single person that thinks this, even Hillary supporters. Contrary to standard belief, I'm not a "supporter" by anything other than default and certainly recognize that she and the Dems ran an 'overconfident' campaign, largely based on underestimating the idiocy of the American people. The narrative I reject is that the election was "stolen" from Bernie. He got less votes, plain and simple. And he was never attacked by the Repubs, mainly because had he become a real threat, doing so (using the 's word') would have been child's play to them.

Perhaps it's time for folks to drop the "I told you so" bullshit and focus on wtf we do now.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneehosifatz » 19 Apr 2017, 18:17

I think this is because the Dem leadership really does not want to rock the boat.
"I told you so" bullshit keeps them on their steady course. I don't think that course is well charted.
Me, I really think that Georgia congress man did as well as he did simply because TRUMP singled him out.
if Dems would stop having bombgasms and keep running candidates that aren't shy of their positions - the time might be right for that.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 19 Apr 2017, 18:44

Jimmy Dore is right and enough with the mealy mouthed platitudes about unity and opportunity and make with the concrete shit like Bernie did: $15 minimum wage, Medicare for all, infrastructure rebuilding jobs, free college, less intervention, a fair deal for the Palestinians, re-regulate the banks, etc. You don't hear this from the mouths of today's Dems. Bernie wasn't as successful as he was because he's telegenic, it's because he had plans to help people.
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toomanyhatz
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby toomanyhatz » 19 Apr 2017, 19:01

Nothing concrete about any of that. How do you accomplish that, especially considering how much opposition Obama, whose goals were much more modest, had to deal with?

I don't know, saying we're going to create a utopia and everyone's going to go along with it, including people who've proven they don't mind fighting dirty sounds a lot more like mealy-mouthed platitudes to me.
Jimbo wrote:A discredited and shady online publication which gets its information straight from Vladmir Putin himself has accused our hometown good boy Toomanyhatz of belonging to an online band of junkies and McDonald's eaters.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby toomanyhatz » 19 Apr 2017, 19:24

Mind you, the guy who got elected did so (at least in part) by saying "it's going to be great!" and giving NO SPECIFICS WHATSOEVER, so I'm obviously out of touch with the masses.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 19 Apr 2017, 19:28

Jimbo wrote:
zoomboogity wrote:
Jimbo wrote:a paranoid presidential candidate who couldn’t articulate why she wanted to be President and who oversaw an overconfident and dysfunctional operation that failed to project a positive message or appeal to key voting groups.


None of which was obvious to anyone halfway paying attention. Thank goodness to these "insider accounts"! Especially the "early" ones.


I posted this mostly to piss off Davey and for the part which says it wasn't Russia who fucked up her shot.


Well..you failed badly at pissing me off. But you did amuse me a bit.

These post-mortems of the Clinton campaign are always pretty transparently self-serving. Imagine you and Robert Parry not coming to the conclusion that she lost for lack of not listening enough to folks like you!

The truth you won't admit is that a vote that turned on 70 thousand votes spread between three states could likely have been shifted on any number of factors. Could the online Russian trolls we've heard about have swung it? Quite possibly. Could the Comey letter have done the job? It's not an unreasonable question. Could the general demonizing of Clinton and the DNC by the far left have thrown it to Trump. It's an open question. Could all of those factors together have made the difference...even with all the flaws of the candidate and her campaign still in place? My position is...I'm pretty damned sure they did.

It could certainly be argued that she wouldn't have been as vulnerable to all of that if she were a better candidate and had run a better candidate. I think that much is likely true. I'm not convinced that Sanders would have been less vulnerable though (and it hardly matters...cause he didn't win the primary).

Regardless...some folks were more committed to saying "I told you so" than beating Trump. So here we are.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby bobzilla77 » 19 Apr 2017, 23:01

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:These post-mortems of the Clinton campaign are always pretty transparently self-serving. Imagine you and Robert Parry not coming to the conclusion that she lost for lack of not listening enough to folks like you!

The truth you won't admit is that a vote that turned on 70 thousand votes spread between three states could likely have been shifted on any number of factors. Could the online Russian trolls we've heard about have swung it? Quite possibly. Could the Comey letter have done the job? It's not an unreasonable question. Could the general demonizing of Clinton and the DNC by the far left have thrown it to Trump. It's an open question. Could all of those factors together have made the difference...even with all the flaws of the candidate and her campaign still in place? My position is...I'm pretty damned sure they did.

It could certainly be argued that she wouldn't have been as vulnerable to all of that if she were a better candidate and had run a better candidate. I think that much is likely true. I'm not convinced that Sanders would have been less vulnerable though (and it hardly matters...cause he didn't win the primary).

Regardless...some folks were more committed to saying "I told you so" than beating Trump. So here we are.


Yeah I'm fucking sick of this desire to revise history. If we could only go back in time and all vote for Hillary! If we could only go back in time and staff the DNC with other people in which case Bernie would have won! If only you had done what I think you should have done, everything would be great.

We can argue over that all year while the house burns down. Next year, we can argue about what other people should have been doing this year instead of re-fighting the 2016 election.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 20 Apr 2017, 03:04

bobzilla77 wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:These post-mortems of the Clinton campaign are always pretty transparently self-serving. Imagine you and Robert Parry not coming to the conclusion that she lost for lack of not listening enough to folks like you!

The truth you won't admit is that a vote that turned on 70 thousand votes spread between three states could likely have been shifted on any number of factors. Could the online Russian trolls we've heard about have swung it? Quite possibly. Could the Comey letter have done the job? It's not an unreasonable question. Could the general demonizing of Clinton and the DNC by the far left have thrown it to Trump. It's an open question. Could all of those factors together have made the difference...even with all the flaws of the candidate and her campaign still in place? My position is...I'm pretty damned sure they did.

It could certainly be argued that she wouldn't have been as vulnerable to all of that if she were a better candidate and had run a better candidate. I think that much is likely true. I'm not convinced that Sanders would have been less vulnerable though (and it hardly matters...cause he didn't win the primary).

Regardless...some folks were more committed to saying "I told you so" than beating Trump. So here we are.


Yeah I'm fucking sick of this desire to revise history. If we could only go back in time and all vote for Hillary! If we could only go back in time and staff the DNC with other people in which case Bernie would have won! If only you had done what I think you should have done, everything would be great.

We can argue over that all year while the house burns down. Next year, we can argue about what other people should have been doing this year instead of re-fighting the 2016 election.


Oh no you don't!

It wasn't that Hillary lost; lets move on; we'll do better next time, etc. The point is that the still unproven reason for her loss, Russia! Russia! Russia! has taken the all of us to the brink of a world war. The amplification of those empty charges have nudged on the winner, a lunatic who promised detante' and to rebuild America, to where he is lobbing missiles at Syrian air bases and with carriers off the North Korean coast.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 20 Apr 2017, 03:34

Riiiiight.

Because he'd be sane and would be commencing sane foreign policy right now if only everyone ignored Putin.
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