President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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THE FILING FEE
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby THE FILING FEE » 07 Mar 2017, 20:38

How many have you got on ignore now, Jimbs?
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PresMuffley
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby PresMuffley » 07 Mar 2017, 20:40

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Greenwald's argument is that Democrats are castigating Trump for continuing Obama's policies. But Cardin was correct in his statement, as Obama had sanctioned Russia over its Ukraine aggression. The election-related sanctions were actually an extension of the deadline on the Ukraine sanctions.

So again...Greenwald's argument starts from a false premise.


Cardin's letter doesn't even mention sanctions - it's more of a straight slander job, really, - but from what I gathered the so-called 'Foreign Policy Elite' were in favor of a more interventionist approach, which is to say, sanctions were never enough for them. Like I said, the piece ties together better if you read the Politico article.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 07 Mar 2017, 21:34

He doesn't mention sanctions - but they form the context of his statement.

I'll get around to the politico article (I scanned it when I first read your comments). But I'm still going to argue that Greenwald is at the very least hyperbolizing when he argues that Democrats have become "increasingly maniacal and militaristic hawks."

Is there honestly any Politico article on earth that could justify such a blanket statement?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby PresMuffley » 07 Mar 2017, 22:29

Well I never denied that he was an opinion journalist ;) Obviously that's how he feels, but I think he tends to be more trustworthy than a lot of reporters - not infallible, but in search of the truth. Whether or not that phrase is applicable to these ' foreign policy elites'
doesn't concern me, as my opinion of these people is already so low.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 07 Mar 2017, 23:01

Here's a decent summary of where we're at now: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/03 ... -could-do/
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 07 Mar 2017, 23:40

PresMuffley wrote:Well I never denied that he was an opinion journalist ;) Obviously that's how he feels, but I think he tends to be more trustworthy than a lot of reporters - not infallible, but in search of the truth. Whether or not that phrase is applicable to these ' foreign policy elites'
doesn't concern me, as my opinion of these people is already so low.


I get it. I'm just not a fan of his style. I don't think it's a coincidence that the last article we discussed had him hyperbolizing some relatively minor expressions of doubt about Keith Ellison into a "vicious smear" - and now he's fanning a politico article into a "maniacal" lust for war.

He also includes a link to Lindsey Graham's bill by calling him "supreme war-monger Lindsey Graham." It's not a completely inaccurate assessment, but in this context he's clearly attempting to paint the bill's Democratic co-sponsors as supreme-war-mongers-by-association by using that loaded descriptor.

I'm not going to tell you how you should consume news. I'm simply telling you that these things cause me to distrust this guy.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 08 Mar 2017, 01:14

I don't give a fuck anymore for milquetoast Hillary supporters. Fuck 'em. They're as fucked up as the Republicans and you are responsible for getting a MORON into to the White House. Below is a guy whom I like again. For a while I wasn't sure because he was a little too much "let's give Trump a s chance" for me. No more. Some BCBers will not even read this far let alone (eek!) open the link and read what he has to say, but fuck you. This is some hard truth motherfuckers and it is not pretty at all. Not. At. All.

Washington’s Benevolent Mask Is Disintegrating

Paul Craig Roberts

The few weeks of Trump’s presidency suffice to make clear that there will be no change this time either. Normal relations with Russia are on the back burner, if not off the stove. The material needs of the military/security complex for an enemy in order to justify its budget and police state powers, and the ideological needs of the neoconservatives for US world hegemony, are deemed to be more important than trust between thermo-nuclear powers. As for the liberal/progressive/left, they regard working to preserve life on earth as merely a pretext for being soft on Russians and those who commit treason by favoring friendly relations with Russia.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/03 ... g-roberts/
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 08 Mar 2017, 01:48

I know you are ignoring me Jimbo, but I'm gonna say this anyhow:

You have to be dumber than a stick to think that Donald Trump is gonna be the guy to solve US/ Russian relations. The fact that you continue to frame this in breathless "save the world from nuclear disaster" rhetoric only serves to make the stick's IQ appear larger.

So once and for all you dumbfuck...I realize that you don't do nuance, but see if you can get this through your skull: Wanting some answers as to what the Trump campaign's relationship with Russia was IS NOT tacit approval for nuclear war.

We aren't making this shit up. 17 US intelligence agencies agree its a real question. Meanwhile different members of the Trump administration keep getting caught in the same lie (a lie they didn't have to tell in the first place if they had nothing to hide). If their goal was truly to advance peace between our nations, wouldn't it have made sense for the Trump folks to have cooled their jets and avoided even the appearance of impropriety once they knew these allegations were out there?

When it comes down to it, I don't think you truly believe any of this shit. I think it's all about team-Bernie for you. I think that if the alt-left started arguing that 9/11 was a hologram, you'd believe it.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby PresMuffley » 08 Mar 2017, 02:16

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:I don't think it's a coincidence that the last article we discussed had him hyperbolizing some relatively minor expressions of doubt about Keith Ellison into a "vicious smear" - and now he's fanning a politico article into a "maniacal" lust for war.


Haim Saban calling Ellison "clearly an anti-Semite and anti-Israel individual" at the Brookings Institute is a relatively minor expression of doubt?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 08 Mar 2017, 02:20

PresMuffley wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:I don't think it's a coincidence that the last article we discussed had him hyperbolizing some relatively minor expressions of doubt about Keith Ellison into a "vicious smear" - and now he's fanning a politico article into a "maniacal" lust for war.


Haim Saban calling Ellison "clearly an anti-Semite and anti-Israel individual" at the Brookings Institute is a relatively minor expression of doubt?


That's one guy. We went over this.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 08 Mar 2017, 03:06

Are you ready for VAULT 7?

HOLY FUCK lovers of liberty!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vault_7

The first batch of documents to be released consisted of 7,818 web pages with 943 attachments, purportedly from the Center for Cyber Intelligence,[3] which already contains more pages than Edward Snowden's NSA release.

Re the current discussion about how a FISA warrant couldn't touch Trump, a US citizen, well, according to Lionel (I'll call him a free thinker), the CIA (and Obama) wanted to spy on Trump so they made out the FISA warrant to ostensibly spy on the foreign entity, Russia. Not only that, thanks to the release of Vault 7 I learned "According to WikiLeaks, these techniques and software are used to confuse forensic investigators by masking the origin of the agency's cyberattacks[2] with the agency purportedly disguising its own cyber attacks as the work of other groups." Could Russian hackers been CIA hackers? Yes they could have.

Oh boy, watch how the bullshitters spin this baby!

It's exciting. It really is. (Whistling: It's the end of the world as we know it …) I mean, just when things couldn't get crazier they get a whole lot crazier. Hollywood … can't touch this! :D
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Diamond Dog » 08 Mar 2017, 04:48

Am I right in saying that the latest Wikileaks exposure is all in html format - i.e easily edited/altered?
David Duke wrote:“Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth about #Charlottesville & condemn the leftist terrorists.”

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 08 Mar 2017, 04:53

Diamond Dog wrote:Am I right in saying that the latest Wikileaks exposure is all in html format - i.e easily edited/altered?


I read you need to open a torrent account.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby PresMuffley » 08 Mar 2017, 08:11

Davey the Fat Boy wrote: That's one guy. We went over this.


One guy, but as Greenwald writes:
one would have to be indescribably naïve about the ways of Washington to believe that such a vicious denunciation by one of the party’s most influential billionaire funders had no effect at all.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby PresMuffley » 08 Mar 2017, 08:21

Snarfyguy wrote:Here's a decent summary of where we're at now: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/03 ... -could-do/


That piece does a great job of highlighting my biggest concern - a terrorist attack. Nothing better could happen for this administration.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby fire and fueryIre » 08 Mar 2017, 09:02

Jimbo wrote:Are you ready for VAULT 7?

HOLY FUCK lovers of liberty!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vault_7

The first batch of documents to be released consisted of 7,818 web pages with 943 attachments, purportedly from the Center for Cyber Intelligence,[3] which already contains more pages than Edward Snowden's NSA release.

Re the current discussion about how a FISA warrant couldn't touch Trump, a US citizen, well, according to Lionel (I'll call him a free thinker), the CIA (and Obama) wanted to spy on Trump so they made out the FISA warrant to ostensibly spy on the foreign entity, Russia. Not only that, thanks to the release of Vault 7 I learned "According to WikiLeaks, these techniques and software are used to confuse forensic investigators by masking the origin of the agency's cyberattacks[2] with the agency purportedly disguising its own cyber attacks as the work of other groups." Could Russian hackers been CIA hackers? Yes they could have.

Oh boy, watch how the bullshitters spin this baby!

It's exciting. It really is. (Whistling: It's the end of the world as we know it …) I mean, just when things couldn't get crazier they get a whole lot crazier. Hollywood … can't touch this! :D


Is that by any chance the same Wikipedia you were denouncing as being a leading distributor of false news a couple of pages back? Boy, they cleaned up their act pretty quickly!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby fire and fueryIre » 08 Mar 2017, 09:05

Jimbo wrote:I don't give a fuck anymore for milquetoast Hillary supporters. Fuck 'em. They're as fucked up as the Republicans and you are responsible for getting a MORON into to the White House. Below is a guy whom I like again. For a while I wasn't sure because he was a little too much "let's give Trump a s chance" for me. No more. Some BCBers will not even re...


Could this by any chance be the same Donald Trump whose election you yourself were hailing not so very long ago and whose presidency you yourself were telling everyone here "to give a chance" to? Why, I do believe it is...
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby PresMuffley » 08 Mar 2017, 11:18

I'm watching a hearing held yesterday by the Senate Appropriations State, Foreign Operations, and Related Programs Subcommittee on 'Russian Influence in Central & Eastern Europe'. Roy Blunt claims it is "widely believed" Russia has interfered with not only U.S. elections, but also those of Germany & France. The committee is questioning the ambassadors of Estonia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Poland... Unsurprisingly all are on board with ramping up pressure on Russia via NATO. As the hearing comes to a close, Lindsey Graham acknowledges the sacrifice & praises the bravery of the ambassadors who have appeared before the subcommittee.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby PresMuffley » 08 Mar 2017, 12:03

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:He also includes a link to Lindsey Graham's bill by calling him "supreme war-monger Lindsey Graham." It's not a completely inaccurate assessment, but in this context he's clearly attempting to paint the bill's Democratic co-sponsors as supreme-war-mongers-by-association by using that loaded descriptor.

'
This reads to me as: I'm basically ok with Graham being described as such, but how dare he be equated with Dems who possess essentially the same destructive worldview.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 08 Mar 2017, 14:55

PresMuffley wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:He also includes a link to Lindsey Graham's bill by calling him "supreme war-monger Lindsey Graham." It's not a completely inaccurate assessment, but in this context he's clearly attempting to paint the bill's Democratic co-sponsors as supreme-war-mongers-by-association by using that loaded descriptor.

'
This reads to me as: I'm basically ok with Graham being described as such, but how dare he be equated with Dems who possess essentially the same destructive worldview.


Then you read it wrong.

It should read like, "I'm fine with a guy on a message board describing Graham (and the Democrats) in that way, but I'd prefer that those who put forth their words as journalism refrain from such manipulations."
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