President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
User avatar
Davey the Fat Boy
Posts: 22259
Joined: 05 Jan 2006, 02:55
Location: Applebees

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 14 Jul 2017, 01:18

Could give a shit about the Magnitsky documentary - and find it funny that you think it's the key to "what's really going on." But I guess if Parry writes it - you lap it up.

This has me thinking that I let you and Parry off too easy about the specious Christopher Steele argument he made and you parroted.

At some level you can be forgiven for your fuzzy thinking, but Parry's suppposed to be a journalist. He should have realized how facile it is to have made that comparison. I'll break down why, and you can make excuses for the guy.

The manipulation that Parry tries to pull off is in suggesting that the problem is information that comes from Russia. He's saying essentially that her getting negative info that originates from Russia is the same as Don Jr. getting negative info from Russia.

But the clear difference is that Fusion GPS is an American firm. They employed Steele to investigate Trump for Jeb Bush. After the primaries were open, they resumed work for the Democratic Party. When their investigation led to info about Russia - they turned it over to the FBI.

That's a pretty clear relationship. We don't have to worry about their motivations, because they are clearly getting paid. Meanwhile,if the info the pass forward somehow comes from Putin's men, they aren't colluding. They are simply victims of Russian propaganda. They got fooled.

Compare that to Don Jr. taking a meeting with someone identifying themselves as representing a Russian government effort to aid his father's election campaign. What's their motivation? You'd have to conclude influence of some kind.

Robert Parry is a smart guy. He can make these distinctions. He chose to to dupe easy marks like you.

You need new "sources."
Marginal BCB contributor since 2006

Image

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 13540
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 14 Jul 2017, 04:47

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Could give a shit about the Magnitsky documentary - and find it funny that you think it's the key to "what's really going on." But I guess if Parry writes it - you lap it up.

This has me thinking that I let you and Parry off too easy about the specious Christopher Steele argument he made and you parroted.

At some level you can be forgiven for your fuzzy thinking, but Parry's suppposed to be a journalist. He should have realized how facile it is to have made that comparison. I'll break down why, and you can make excuses for the guy.

The manipulation that Parry tries to pull off is in suggesting that the problem is information that comes from Russia. He's saying essentially that her getting negative info that originates from Russia is the same as Don Jr. getting negative info from Russia.

But the clear difference is that Fusion GPS is an American firm. They employed Steele to investigate Trump for Jeb Bush. After the primaries were open, they resumed work for the Democratic Party. When their investigation led to info about Russia - they turned it over to the FBI.

That's a pretty clear relationship. We don't have to worry about their motivations, because they are clearly getting paid. Meanwhile,if the info the pass forward somehow comes from Putin's men, they aren't colluding. They are simply victims of Russian propaganda. They got fooled.

Compare that to Don Jr. taking a meeting with someone identifying themselves as representing a Russian government effort to aid his father's election campaign. What's their motivation? You'd have to conclude influence of some kind.

Robert Parry is a smart guy. He can make these distinctions. He chose to to dupe easy marks like you.

You need new "sources."


I'll deal with the Steele-Trump Jr. comparison first.

Acknowledged by one and all is that this Russian lawyer had nothing to tell Jr. about HRC. I don't know but had Jr. gotten dirt from this Russian lawyer he just might have told the FBI, too. Who knows? However, while not reporting this nothing burger of a meeting to the FBI, when word got out that he had met with a Russian - rightfully fearful of how this would appear - Jr. put his story - dumb shit and all - on the internet. So, if HRC had done the right thing by reporting their findings to the FBI, Trump Jr. had done a positive thing, too, by fessing up on the internet. It's a draw, sort of.

Basta! That Jeb! had hired the investigators first is moot. When Jeb! lost he had no need of them but the Dems did so the Dems took over the investigation. So please stop with who hired who first. This was HRC's baby now.

More importantly, and to Parry's point, is that, indeed, Jr. and the Dems still did essentially the same thing, they both went looking for Russian tinged opposition research and dealt with Russians to do it. The difference, and where the media hypocrisy lies, is that HRC's team actually went to Russia and talked, dare I say colluded with actual Russian officials while Jr. is pilloried (Hillaried!) for only meeting and then being "punkt" by a Russian who had nothing to tell him about Hillary. So, IMO, singling out Trump Jr. is fake news.

And exposing this fake news is what Parry is all about these days. In article after article he shows how the corporate mainstream media is lying outright or by omission, how they're always making the neoconservative's case for more belligerence, more military, ultimately more war and - I fear - the end of mankind. I don't think the Magnitsky documentary is "the key to what's really going on" but its suppression as illustrated by Parry is just another example of the media boosting the neocons' case, for more war, more belligerence. They are amping up the Russia hysteria by suppressing information then repeating, reinforcing, propagandizing what most Americans already instinctively believe. Russians are the bad guys and we are the good guys.

God help us.
I love you.

User avatar
Davey the Fat Boy
Posts: 22259
Joined: 05 Jan 2006, 02:55
Location: Applebees

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 14 Jul 2017, 05:10

Again you ignore the point.

The issue isn't where the information comes from. It's the potential for a quid pro quo.

If I give you $5 to go and get me a Russian nothingburger, its a clear transaction. You get the money, I get the burger. We're done.

If you show up at my office offering me nothingburgers galore and I accept - that's a gateway to influence. I owe you something now.

Neither Jeb! nor Hillary can be presumed to be beholden to the Russian government due to their retention of Steele. He may have complicated relationships with his sources - but they paid to be removed from all of that.

The whole point of collusion is that it's a deal between two parties for mutual gain. Neither Jeb! Nor Hillary had a deal with Russia. Don Jr. On the other hand was clearly exploring one.

That you remain willfully confused about this isn't surprising. Your world view seems to rely on that. But Parry's job is to clarify - and he has pretty clearly failed miserably on that front. He's a propaganda artist and you are the kind of guy he preys on.
Marginal BCB contributor since 2006

Image

User avatar
Still Baron
Diamond Geezer
Posts: 41797
Joined: 18 Jul 2003, 05:38
Location: Nationwide

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Still Baron » 14 Jul 2017, 05:16

1. There is an investigation into whether the Russians/Kremlin attempted to interfere with our election. We haven't seen the results of that investigation, even Trump now accepts that the Russians attempted to interfere.

2. The Trump organization has shown zero interest or curiosity in this investigation. All of the intelligence agencies appear to agree that something has happened and will happened again. A president relies on these agencies to assist him in guarding the country.

3. The administration/campaign has denied working with or having any involvement with the Russians on this front repeatedly, and when news came out about the meeting, the administration was evasive and peddled in quarter-truths, at best.

4. Now we KNOW that the campaign at the highest levels (including present and former members of the administration), responded swiftly and eagerly to an offer for information, sold explicitly as an offer from the Russian Government as part of their attempt to help Trump win. They jumped at the chance to meet with someone purported to be a government lawyer about this information. This is plainly laid out for all to see, thanks to Don Jr.'s efforts towards transparency.

5. What came out of the meeting is totallt irrelevant, and their eagerness to both consummate this meeting and then cover it up is VERY MUCH news.

6. It is not "fake news" in any regard. The most damaging details came straight from Donald Jr., and those details show that Manafort and Kushner were both in on it and had access to the exact same information.

7. That they responded as they did to the solicitation is the story. That is the news.
Last edited by Still Baron on 14 Jul 2017, 12:40, edited 1 time in total.
take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

Six String
Posts: 19907
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:22

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Six String » 14 Jul 2017, 05:40

Yes, I'm lusting after your wife at this very moment. Sorry Melania, I can't help it, I'm an animal. He can't go a day without lying or saying something stupid. The press doesn't have to work very hard at making him look bad if that is their goal.

User avatar
mentalist (slight return)
under mi sensi
Posts: 14223
Joined: 17 Jul 2003, 10:54
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby mentalist (slight return) » 14 Jul 2017, 07:04

Either way this will drag out for 3 more years and Chump will hopefully not stand for another term having built a few kilometers of his see-through solar wall.
king of the divan

User avatar
The Great Defector
Posts: 15611
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 18:16

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby The Great Defector » 14 Jul 2017, 13:11

Count Machuki wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:
Count Machuki wrote:
at any rate, here's today's article about leching on an Irish reporter

‘I bet she treats you well’: Trump calls over Irish reporter, compliments her ‘nice smile’




I obviously can't speak for her, but I don't think it would be a big deal to her.


Pas grand chose?




She hasn't spoken out about it as far as I know. Then again I haven't gone looking since it happened.
Loki wrote:You Brit boys are so contentious!

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 13540
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 14 Jul 2017, 15:13



Fuck it.
I love you.

User avatar
Davey the Fat Boy
Posts: 22259
Joined: 05 Jan 2006, 02:55
Location: Applebees

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 14 Jul 2017, 16:34

Marginal BCB contributor since 2006

Image

User avatar
sloopjohnc
Posts: 59223
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12
Location: One quake away from beachfront property
Contact:

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 14 Jul 2017, 17:05

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Again you ignore the point.

The issue isn't where the information comes from. It's the potential for a quid pro quo.

If I give you $5 to go and get me a Russian nothingburger, its a clear transaction. You get the money, I get the burger. We're done.

If you show up at my office offering me nothingburgers galore and I accept - that's a gateway to influence. I owe you something now.

Neither Jeb! nor Hillary can be presumed to be beholden to the Russian government due to their retention of Steele. He may have complicated relationships with his sources - but they paid to be removed from all of that.

The whole point of collusion is that it's a deal between two parties for mutual gain. Neither Jeb! Nor Hillary had a deal with Russia. Don Jr. On the other hand was clearly exploring one.

That you remain willfully confused about this isn't surprising. Your world view seems to rely on that. But Parry's job is to clarify - and he has pretty clearly failed miserably on that front. He's a propaganda artist and you are the kind of guy he preys on.


I heard last night that the lawyer they met represents a Russian oligarch's family that is very tied to Putin beside's the pop singer's dad. Now, they have info that there was possibly a fifth and maybe sixth person at the meeting too, that believe it or not, no one told us about.

All this HRC talk bugs me. Jimbo, you sound like Trump, she's not President, so why sweat it? Let's focus on who is President and his ties to Putin. Keep your eye on the ball.
Bride Of Sea Of Tunes wrote:I for one wouldn't want to know what memories and deep and dark forces drive Ed Sheeran, Coldplay, or Radiohead, for certain.

User avatar
Davey the Fat Boy
Posts: 22259
Joined: 05 Jan 2006, 02:55
Location: Applebees

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 14 Jul 2017, 17:31

That's the larger point, isn't it?

Even if Hillary Clinton collided with the Russians (she didn't) - it still would not make it any less traitorous for the Trump campaign to have colluded with the Russians.

Personally - the longer this goes, the more I suspect we will never find evidence of meaningful collusion. Not because I don't think the Trump campaign wouldn't have jumped at the opportunity (Jr.'s emails show otherwise), but because I don't think these folks were smart enough disciplined enough to carry out any plan of even minimal complexity.

But I think Putin is capable of that, and I want some answers about what happened in our election, and if needed - some action taken to protect the next one.

Notice Jimbo...I'm not rattling sabers about retribution against your mother Russia.
Marginal BCB contributor since 2006

Image

User avatar
Count Machuki
BCB Cup Champion 2013
Posts: 37063
Joined: 11 Jun 2005, 15:28
Location: way down below the ocean

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 14 Jul 2017, 17:33

Count Machuki wrote:
Count Machuki wrote:Republican consultant asked Russian hackers for Clinton emails to give to the Trump campaign for campaign purposes.


They say it better

https://thinkprogress.org/as-white-hous ... dd40849cf5


So does this guy's suicide set anybody's Jimbo senses atingle?
Jimbo?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... story.html
Let U be the set of all united sets, K be the set of the kids and D be the set of things divided.
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D

User avatar
Davey the Fat Boy
Posts: 22259
Joined: 05 Jan 2006, 02:55
Location: Applebees

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 14 Jul 2017, 17:43

Count Machuki wrote:
Count Machuki wrote:
Count Machuki wrote:Republican consultant asked Russian hackers for Clinton emails to give to the Trump campaign for campaign purposes.


They say it better

https://thinkprogress.org/as-white-hous ... dd40849cf5


So does this guy's suicide set anybody's Jimbo senses atingle?
Jimbo?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... story.html


Well something's off about it. Does any life insurance policy pay off for suicide?

EDIT: Just looked it up. They won't pay for two years after taking out the policy. After that...they might. So maybe this is legit. Though I can imagine them contesting it based on him saying straight out that he did it for the payout.

You have to wonder if he thought he was going down in the Russia investigations.
Marginal BCB contributor since 2006

Image

User avatar
The Great Defector
Posts: 15611
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 18:16

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby The Great Defector » 14 Jul 2017, 17:53

I find it funny the idea that if Putin did fuck all to the US elections, that he is sitting there amazed and laughing to himself at all the shit that is happening, and thinking "what if I actually did do something?"
Loki wrote:You Brit boys are so contentious!

User avatar
fire and fueryIre
Posts: 8749
Joined: 04 May 2011, 02:57
Location: Accredited BCB Pain in the Arse

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby fire and fueryIre » 14 Jul 2017, 17:55

There's a great story in teh current issue of Private Eye about how beleagured British PM Theresa May was crowing about how important she was after she spent 50 minutes sitting down with Trump recently. The magazine pointed out that the Donald had apparently spent four hours with Ted Nugent when he and Kid Rock recently dropped into the White House on a casual visit.
Image

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 13540
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 14 Jul 2017, 18:04

And you call me a conspiracy nut?

Know what? I hope all this bullshit is true. I hope like Colbert said, Trump was fucking Putin up the ass and while they fucked they plotted to get Trump in the White House. "Oh, Trumpy, my orange puppy, I so desperately wish to upset the American way of life, to destroy their pristine election system, not to mention take revenge on that Hilarrrrrry Cleeenton. How could I do it, how could I get sweet revenge? Maybe if I pollute the drinking water in Michigan or addict your people on pain medication or hypnotize the police to think they see a grizzly bear when they see a black man --- Oh, what to do? What to do? Oh, Gucifer?"

"Yes, master?"

And the rest is history.
I love you.

User avatar
Count Machuki
BCB Cup Champion 2013
Posts: 37063
Joined: 11 Jun 2005, 15:28
Location: way down below the ocean

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 14 Jul 2017, 18:30

Jimbo wrote:And you call me a conspiracy nut?

Know what? I hope all this bullshit is true. I hope like Colbert said, Trump was fucking Putin up the ass and while they fucked they plotted to get Trump in the White House. "Oh, Trumpy, my orange puppy, I so desperately wish to upset the American way of life, to destroy their pristine election system, not to mention take revenge on that Hilarrrrrry Cleeenton. How could I do it, how could I get sweet revenge? Maybe if I pollute the drinking water in Michigan or addict your people on pain medication or hypnotize the police to think they see a grizzly bear when they see a black man --- Oh, what to do? What to do? Oh, Gucifer?"

"Yes, master?"

And the rest is history.


Trenchant analysis, there, Jimbo. Astute as ever.
Let U be the set of all united sets, K be the set of the kids and D be the set of things divided.
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D

User avatar
Davey the Fat Boy
Posts: 22259
Joined: 05 Jan 2006, 02:55
Location: Applebees

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 14 Jul 2017, 18:59

Jimbo's getting into erotic fan faction. Glad he's taken on a hobby.
Marginal BCB contributor since 2006

Image

User avatar
Count Machuki
BCB Cup Champion 2013
Posts: 37063
Joined: 11 Jun 2005, 15:28
Location: way down below the ocean

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 14 Jul 2017, 19:26

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Jimbo's getting into erotic fan faction. Glad he's taken on a hobby.


Sure beats Hobby Lobby's Hammurabi robbing jobby.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... f54069139b
Let U be the set of all united sets, K be the set of the kids and D be the set of things divided.
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D

User avatar
Still Baron
Diamond Geezer
Posts: 41797
Joined: 18 Jul 2003, 05:38
Location: Nationwide

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Still Baron » 14 Jul 2017, 23:29

I watched most of that Roger Stone documentary on Netflix last night (pretty innarestin, by the way) and was struck by his unabashed embrace of Nixon and Stone's political birth in Watergate.

Here's something actually decent from Jeffrey Toobin about the political realities that govern impeachment (rather than cleaner legal standards).

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-com ... final-days
Last edited by Still Baron on 15 Jul 2017, 00:40, edited 1 time in total.
take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.