President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Still Baron
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Still Baron » 16 May 2017, 14:47

It's a dreadful compromise. Get rid of the oafish bungler (yay!) get a conservative machine that can take fuller advantage of their lockdown on Washington (boo!)

Still, I'd take the trade, I guess.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Still Baron » 16 May 2017, 14:52

Tactful Cactus wrote:
Still Baron wrote:Firing Comey was not a criminal offense, and the President is free to fire the FBI Director. I'm talking about hard evidence of crime. As Snarfy has suggested, it's a political matter. So long as the people running the House are beholden to Trump voters at home (which most of them are) then it will take something that no partisan can spin to force them to take action.



Ok, until the next bombshell.....*checks watch*


Less than a week! I think we're there now. I'm not convinced Trump has committed a "crime," but, as the Lawfare piece suggests, violated his oath of office. It's certainly good enough for me for them to take a shot now.
take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 16 May 2017, 14:57

For the first time today I was thinking about how if we strike Donald Trump down he might become more powerful than we could possibly imagine
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 16 May 2017, 15:09

I'm tired of all of the winning.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Tactful Cactus » 16 May 2017, 16:19

Still Baron wrote:Less than a week! I think we're there now. I'm not convinced Trump has committed a "crime," but, as the Lawfare piece suggests, violated his oath of office. It's certainly good enough for me for them to take a shot now.


I hope you're right. From an outsider point of view this latest incident seems like carelessness, naivety, lack of experience, bragging and the oath (at least the bits quoted by your link) are ambiguous. The firing of Comey seems alot more willfully disruptive and lawless but then you said yourself last week it wouldn't be enough to stick. Hopefully this is.

And can the media of the world stop calling them bombshells? We need a new word because as dangerous as it may be its completely predictable and in keeping with the mans personality. This is Trump, why wouldn't he boast about having better intel than Russia?

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Charlie O. » 16 May 2017, 17:17

Still Baron wrote:It's a dreadful compromise. Get rid of the oafish bungler (yay!) get a conservative machine that can take fuller advantage of their lockdown on Washington (boo!)

Still, I'd take the trade, I guess.

It's impossible to know, isn't it? Part of me wants him to stay on so that by the mid-terms no-one will be able to deny that we need a "new broom."

But then I think of all he could get up to (or down to) in the meantime...
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 16 May 2017, 18:11

Snarfyguy wrote:^^^ See, this is the kind of story that's bad for Trump, even leaving aside the impact it has on voters and his support in congress, because this sort of oafish blundering is the kind of thing that's going to piss off guys like the Koch Brothers. While I have no love for their ilk, they at least expect certain standards of propriety to be met by the office of the POTUS and they're not going to be infinitely patient with our clown-in-chief - especially when they can have the same deregulatory orgy under a president Pence without all the executive incompetence that Trump brings to the world stage.

I meant to remark that we should also consider the claim by White House, regarding the same meeting, that it was "tricked" into admitting the TASS photographer to memorialize the event when there was supposed to be no press present.

The White House was "tricked."

Jesus Christ, who is running the shop down there, a bunch of interns? Every DAY with this kind of stuff, I swear.

And it's not that I want a president Pence, but I do relish the notion of Trump disgraced and cast out -- the mortal blow to his monumental ego.

(my dream is trump as an organ grinder with a monkey, and people jeering and throwing fruit at him on Fifth Avenue, outside of what used to be "Trump Tower")
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Harvey K-Tel » 16 May 2017, 18:13

Snarfyguy wrote:
And it's not that I want a president Pence...


The rumblings I'm hearing are making it sound like you're going to wind up with President Hatch once the dust settles.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 16 May 2017, 18:13

it's getting to where they just start spitting out conflicting stories until something sticks or something else happens.

I know lots of TRUMP supporters and about half of them are expressing surprise with the way he's been acting. He's so arbitrary & unpredictable.These are mostly people I like very much and they are certainly the best judge of what surprises them.

Still, it seems to me that these are the very qualities that made them gravitate to him as a candidate. they would whoop and holler at the debates as he grimaced and insulted others in the most "celebrity roast" political debates I've ever seen.

I'm not saying the scales are falling from anybody's eyes but I think they are noticing that maybe being outspoken and unpredictable isn't necessarily a good thing. Also, when he's not being UNpredictable - he's pretty mind numbingly predictable. FAKE NEWS! Biggest Victory! Failing New York Times. Ho Hum.

yeah, I hope TRUMP mania is pretty much spent by the mid-terms. it could happen.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 16 May 2017, 18:16

Harvey K-Tel wrote:
Snarfyguy wrote:
And it's not that I want a president Pence...


The rumblings I'm hearing are making it sound like you're going to wind up with President Hatch once the dust settles.

Fucking hell, is that guy still alive? He's gotta be 90 years old!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 16 May 2017, 18:22

Tactful Cactus wrote:
Still Baron wrote:Less than a week! I think we're there now. I'm not convinced Trump has committed a "crime," but, as the Lawfare piece suggests, violated his oath of office. It's certainly good enough for me for them to take a shot now.


I hope you're right. From an outsider point of view this latest incident seems like carelessness, naivety, lack of experience, bragging and the oath (at least the bits quoted by your link) are ambiguous. The firing of Comey seems alot more willfully disruptive and lawless but then you said yourself last week it wouldn't be enough to stick. Hopefully this is


That's basically what Leo Panetta said last night or today - that from the outside, Trump is taking down the respect of the office it had worldwide.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Charlie O. » 16 May 2017, 18:31

sneelock wrote:These are mostly people I like very much and they are certainly the best judge of what surprises them.

:lol:
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Tactful Cactus » 16 May 2017, 18:34

Harvey K-Tel wrote:
Snarfyguy wrote:
And it's not that I want a president Pence...


The rumblings I'm hearing are making it sound like you're going to wind up with President Hatch once the dust settles.


Who is Hatch, and how might he end up de facto President??

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Still Baron » 16 May 2017, 18:36

He's a Senator from Utah and is President pro tempore of the Senate, which is somewhere down the list of Presidential succession (third, behind VP Pence and Speaker Ryan).
take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Tactful Cactus » 16 May 2017, 18:44

I see. Why else is Pence debasing himself if not to assume the Presidency? Ford to his Nixon.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 16 May 2017, 20:38

Why I am defending Trump I don't know but I have read some opinions that make some sense of his moves. While Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein did not outright recommend firing Comey the memo he wrote for Trump was sufficiently damning to make the current "decider" think it was the right move. Indeed the memo was about how Comey had handled HRC but maybe Trump felt he'd get a similar raw deal if he kept him on.

Some bits of the memo from an Atlantic article:

Almost everyone agrees that the Director made serious mistakes; it is one of the few issues that unites people of diverse perspectives.

The director was wrong to usurp the Attorney General's authority on July 5, 2016, and announce his conclusion that the case should be closed without prosecution.

Compounding the error, the Director ignored another longstanding principle: we do not hold press conferences to release derogatory information about the subject of a declined criminal investigation.

In response to skeptical question at a congressional hearing, the Director defended his remarks by saying that his "goal was to say what is true. What did we do, what did we find, what do we think about it." But the goal of a federal criminal investigation is not to announce our thoughts at a press conference. The goal is to determine whether there is sufficient evidence to justify a federal criminal prosecution, then allow a federal prosecutor who exercises authority delegated by the Attorney General to make a prosecutorial decision, and then - if prosecution is warranted - let the judge and jury determine the facts. We sometimes release information about closed investigations in appropriate ways, but the FBI does not do it sua sponte.

My perspective on these issues is shared by former Attorneys General and Deputy Attorneys General from different eras and both political parties. Judge Laurence Silberman, who served as Deputy Attorney General under President Ford, wrote that "it is not the bureau's responsibility to opine on whether a matter should be prosecuted."

Former Attorney General Michael Mukasey, who served under President George W. Bush, observed the Director "stepped way outside his job in disclosing the recommendation in that fashion" because the FBI director "doesn't make that decision."
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Still Baron » 16 May 2017, 20:42

Hasn't Trump since admitted that he was going to fire Comey and shut down the investigation and hasn't it since been reported that the memos were essentially a post hoc justification for it?
take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 16 May 2017, 20:51

Still Baron wrote:Hasn't Trump since admitted that he was going to fire Comey and shut down the investigation and hasn't it since been reported that the memos were essentially a post hoc justification for it?


What Trump says and what Trump does are two different things, I read he might have thought he was covering Rosensteins ass, "appreciating his loyalty" by stating different reasons for the firing. Surely Rosenstein hasn't made too many friends in the FBI.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Still Baron » 16 May 2017, 20:53

Well that seems highly implausible!

And wasn't Rosenstein in office for, like, two weeks when the memo was released? I mean ...
take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 16 May 2017, 21:01

Still Baron wrote:Well that seems highly implausible!

And wasn't Rosenstein in office for, like, two weeks when the memo was released? I mean ...


So what? You saw what happened. The memo was released. The memo didn't lie. Trump fired Comey. Trump made up another excuse for the firing but he could easily have made his decision based upon the memo. And not because he was suddenly defending HRC but because Comey really was "grandstanding," as implied in the memo. This incident will not be grounds for interference of justice.
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