Former President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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andymacandy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby andymacandy » 18 Jul 2018, 16:44

The Prof wrote:Playing devil's advocate a bit, but he's just had a meeting with Putin - who is stood about 2 foot away and the press are asking if Putin is a crook.
It seemed obvious he was bound to say No then go on about Hilary's emails then backpedal once he got on American soil again.

But he looked so un-statesmanlike while doing it. For a man that seems to thrive on his own confidence, he looked a bit out of his depth, and I havn't seen that before.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby BARON CORNY DOG » 18 Jul 2018, 17:03

Jimbo wrote:
LeBaron wrote:
Since you’ll apparently believe any old shit you read, so long as it doesn’t come from the NYT or WaPo, and consists of a string of dubious claims strung together to make a conclusory point, you may wish to consider another perspective in your undying search for TRUTH. Here are some people talking, but with the added novelty that they actually have some idea of what they’re talking about ...

https://www.lawfareblog.com/lawfare-pod ... indictment


I will read your link but it seems you only read my poor synopsis and not the article, otherwise you''d say more than just insult my cred. Ritter is not a conspiracy theorist but a real mensch, a genuine hero of the left during the Iraq debacle.


I read the article, which was nonsense. It was such nonsense I was distracted from doing any work for about 20 minutes with my own inner outrage and spinning thoughts.

Unfortunately, I don’t have much time to do things like rip apart a bogus article written by someone who doesn’t actually know what they’re talking about. If Ritter is the weapons inspector, I’d be happy to read his thoughts on the state of a given country’s nuclear regime, or the effectiveness of inspections, or something like that. Or am I wrong? Is he a federal criminal lawyer or cybercrime expert?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 18 Jul 2018, 17:17

LeBaron wrote:
Jimbo wrote:More and more interesting! This article by former weapons inspector Scott Ritter makes the case that the recent indictment against the 12 Russians is more political than criminal because it was made to hurt Trump, especially its timing, and even more interestingly because it's bogus. Apparently the hackers methods as laid out in the indictment match a pre-existing NSA hacking template. As I understand it, the NSA wizards had crafted a hacking scenario - for training I assume - and then Rosenstein cut and pated the Russians onto the scenario. Ritter goes so far as to accuse Rosenstein of sedition for producing and announcing this possibly bogus indictment just as Trump is about to meet Putin possibly interfering with a legitimate foreign policy act.

There is one major problem with the indictment, however: It doesn’t prove that which it asserts. True, it provides a compelling narrative that reads like a spy novel, and there is no doubt in my mind that many of the technical details related to the timing and functioning of the malware described within are accurate. But the leap of logic that takes the reader from the inner workings of the servers of the Democratic Party to the offices of Russian intelligence officers in Moscow is not backed up by anything that demonstrates how these connections were made.


https://www.truthdig.com/articles/indic ... tical-act/


Since you’ll apparently believe any old shit you read, so long as it doesn’t come from the NYT or WaPo, and consists of a string of dubious claims strung together to make a conclusory point, you may wish to consider another perspective in your undying search for TRUTH. Here are some people talking, but with the added novelty that they actually have some idea of what they’re talking about ...

https://www.lawfareblog.com/lawfare-pod ... indictment


:lol:
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 18 Jul 2018, 17:38

LeBaron wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
LeBaron wrote:
Since you’ll apparently believe any old shit you read, so long as it doesn’t come from the NYT or WaPo, and consists of a string of dubious claims strung together to make a conclusory point, you may wish to consider another perspective in your undying search for TRUTH. Here are some people talking, but with the added novelty that they actually have some idea of what they’re talking about ...

https://www.lawfareblog.com/lawfare-pod ... indictment


I will read your link but it seems you only read my poor synopsis and not the article, otherwise you''d say more than just insult my cred. Ritter is not a conspiracy theorist but a real mensch, a genuine hero of the left during the Iraq debacle.


I read the article, which was nonsense. It was such nonsense I was distracted from doing any work for about 20 minutes with my own inner outrage and spinning thoughts.

Unfortunately, I don’t have much time to do things like rip apart a bogus article written by someone who doesn’t actually know what they’re talking about. If Ritter is the weapons inspector, I’d be happy to read his thoughts on the state of a given country’s nuclear regime, or the effectiveness of inspections, or something like that. Or am I wrong? Is he a federal criminal lawyer or cybercrime expert?


I'm surprised you don't know Ritter. I'd think that forensics is his one of his specialities. Here is his Wiki where you can see he's been in the thick of all sorts of military/intelligence matters. (Try to ignore the part where we was arrested for soliciting sex from minors. :oops: )https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Ritter As I listen to your podcast I am afraid I have been tainted by the Ritter article and as they are awed by the indictment's intricate details I am thinking how thorough the NSA's template must have been.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 18 Jul 2018, 18:00

While Ritter seems to have extensive military experience and was a UN weapons inspector, he doesn't have a legal background. I think that's what Baron was getting at about people knowing what they're talking about.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 18 Jul 2018, 18:01

andymacandy wrote:
The Prof wrote:Playing devil's advocate a bit, but he's just had a meeting with Putin - who is stood about 2 foot away and the press are asking if Putin is a crook.
It seemed obvious he was bound to say No then go on about Hilary's emails then backpedal once he got on American soil again.

But he looked so un-statesmanlike while doing it. For a man that seems to thrive on his own confidence, he looked a bit out of his depth, and I havn't seen that before.


Unfortunately, we've seen it here many times.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby BARON CORNY DOG » 18 Jul 2018, 18:09

sloopjohnc wrote:While Ritter seems to have extensive military experience and was a UN weapons inspector, he doesn't have a legal background. I think that's what Baron was getting at about people knowing what they're talking about.


Basically.
According to wiki, he was a Marine intelligence officer from ‘84 until ‘96. He was also a weapons inspector from ‘91 until ‘98, when he resigned. None of that related to federal investigations, prosecutions, or cybercrime. And he hasn’t been in the game he was playing for 20 YEARS. And now he is a felon. I certainly don’t hold that against him, but it explains why he has to take whatever work he can find, which apparently includes writing stuff online, stringing together unsupported statements that sound important and undeniable to lead to a conclusion that appears inevitable. Which is to say, telling armchair “skeptics” and gadflies what they want to hear).
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby pig bodine » 18 Jul 2018, 18:19

Geezee wrote:It seems ridiculous to say, but he seems to me to have lost a lot of credibility.


I wish this was the case, but his approval rating hasn’t changed. It is a religious cult, there is nothing he could do to lose his base. There could be fims of him molesting children and they’d say it was faked. They would die for him, no differently than Jim Jones or the castrated Reeboks guy.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 18 Jul 2018, 18:21

I don’t dismiss that Ritter might know what he’s talking about. How the hell would I know? Articles like his are virtually useless to lay people.

So I’ll wait to see whether he draws a crowd of people with relevant expertise to push his thesis forward. If we go two weeks and the only people citing him are Oliver Stone, Katrina vanden Heuvel and the usual suspects...I’ll feel pretty good about ignoring him. Meanwhile, if he’s right - I will expect to see mainstream news echo him in that time frame.

I know which one is more likely. But I’ll keep an open mind.

It’s a pretty ridiculous accusation on its face. It assumes a conspiracy to “get” Trump in the part of our entire intelligence community going back to before the election (when the same people were inexplicably throwing the election to Trump).

Beyond the fact that Jimbo seemingly believes that nothing happens in the world that is not a US created false flag event...he can’t even account for the fact that not even any of the whistleblowers he idolizes ever bear his theories out.

So how do they keep such a grand magnitude of manipulation under wraps? Why does Wikileaks bother with Podesta when they’ve got millions of false flags to expose?

I expect I’ll get Jimmy Dore for an answer.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 18 Jul 2018, 18:23

LeBaron wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:While Ritter seems to have extensive military experience and was a UN weapons inspector, he doesn't have a legal background. I think that's what Baron was getting at about people knowing what they're talking about.


Basically.
According to wiki, he was a Marine intelligence officer from ‘84 until ‘96. He was also a weapons inspector from ‘91 until ‘98, when he resigned. None of that related to federal investigations, prosecutions, or cybercrime. And he hasn’t been in the game he was playing for 20 YEARS. And now he is a felon. I certainly don’t hold that against him, but it explains why he has to take whatever work he can find, which apparently includes writing stuff online, stringing together unsupported statements that sound important and undeniable to lead to a conclusion that appears inevitable. Which is to say, telling armchair “skeptics” and gadflies what they want to hear).


He also lives in Russia and appears to write generally sympathetic articles about Putin.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 18 Jul 2018, 18:37

The Modernist wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:It will be fish & chip paper tomorrow, trust me.


Probably. He does and says so many ridiculous, dangerous and probably illegal things on an almost daily basis that in the end nothing stands out.


In May, the Washington Post reported that the Fact Checker (I don't know if that's separate site or a division of WaPO) showed that Trump has lied, on average, 6.5 times a day since he took the oath of officce. Sometimes he probably lies less on some days and more on others, but that's probably cuz he misplaced his phone and can't tweet for a couple hours.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Geezee » 18 Jul 2018, 21:28

pig bodine wrote:
Geezee wrote:It seems ridiculous to say, but he seems to me to have lost a lot of credibility.


I wish this was the case, but his approval rating hasn’t changed. It is a religious cult, there is nothing he could do to lose his base. There could be fims of him molesting children and they’d say it was faked. They would die for him, no differently than Jim Jones or the castrated Reeboks guy.


There’s been an approval rating since yesterday? I wouldn’t expect an immediate impact anyway. But it’s a start. It’s at least the first chip that I’ve ever seen in his infallibility - which may just be a blip, and may indeed be forgotten - but I’ve always dismissed all the other false dawns against him (all the “this time he’s gone too fars”), and this one somehow, for some reason, looks different to me. These kinds of images are hard to get rid of - he can spout as many lies and mistakes and insults and neo-nazism that he wants and it will never impact - but something as basic as issuing a begrudging admittance that he made a mistake, that to me seemed significant. Have you ever seen a power-hungry, dictator-worshipping narcissist do that before? I haven’t.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby The Prof » 18 Jul 2018, 23:48

andymacandy wrote:
The Prof wrote:Playing devil's advocate a bit, but he's just had a meeting with Putin - who is stood about 2 foot away and the press are asking if Putin is a crook.
It seemed obvious he was bound to say No then go on about Hilary's emails then backpedal once he got on American soil again.

But he looked so un-statesmanlike while doing it. For a man that seems to thrive on his own confidence, he looked a bit out of his depth, and I havn't seen that before.

He's not really a Statesman. He's a bully and a liar but I don't think he's daft enough to say that the Russian government had interfered in American democracy whilst stood next to the Russian President. Not when they'd just had a meeting to try and build bridges.
By asking those questions, it was a bit of a stitch up by the press. But...well... fuck him.. he deserves it.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby BARON CORNY DOG » 18 Jul 2018, 23:57

As I said earlier, any variety of bullshit equivocations would have worked just fine.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 18 Jul 2018, 23:58

my dog ate my homework is a better excuse.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby bobzilla77 » 19 Jul 2018, 00:28

The Prof wrote:
andymacandy wrote:
The Prof wrote:Playing devil's advocate a bit, but he's just had a meeting with Putin - who is stood about 2 foot away and the press are asking if Putin is a crook.
It seemed obvious he was bound to say No then go on about Hilary's emails then backpedal once he got on American soil again.

But he looked so un-statesmanlike while doing it. For a man that seems to thrive on his own confidence, he looked a bit out of his depth, and I havn't seen that before.

He's not really a Statesman. He's a bully and a liar but I don't think he's daft enough to say that the Russian government had interfered in American democracy whilst stood next to the Russian President. Not when they'd just had a meeting to try and build bridges.
By asking those questions, it was a bit of a stitch up by the press. But...well... fuck him.. he deserves it.


The thing I'm gettting from the reaction, what bugs people on that side is that he acted visibly and unmistakably like a little puss in front of the town bully.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 19 Jul 2018, 01:04

bobzilla77 wrote:The thing I'm gettting from the reaction, what bugs people on that side is that he acted visibly and unmistakably like a little puss in front of the town bully.

For someone who regularly trades in "America First" rhetoric, he plainly put America last at that appearance - behind a) himself, and b) Putin - and then acted like a crybaby when called out on it. Even his so-called "walkback" blamed everyone else but himself ("It should have been clear," or whatever he said).

Aside from the disgraceful content of his speech, he certainly didn't manage to project strength, and I would think even his base would take note of his craven submissiveness to his "competitor."
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 19 Jul 2018, 04:08

Maybe, somehow, this will put an end to the Russia! hysteria and the congress can get back to doing what they should have been doing: impeaching Trump.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 19 Jul 2018, 05:06

Impeach the great peacemaker?!!!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 19 Jul 2018, 05:08

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Impeach the great peacemaker?!!!


Yeah … well, the guy is a doofus.

Davey, Pence or Trump?
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