Former President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 20 Jul 2018, 18:53

Jimbo wrote:Oh, Mueller knows what he's doing. He's lying like he did for Bush in the Iraq war. That's his role. And I think by indicting 12 Russians who will never appear in court, plus no Americans, he knows he won't have to try and prove his case. (Baron's right about me not knowing what will happen in Congress but how often do we hear how the intelligence won't reveal its methods?) It's a pantomime, a ruse to keep the anti-Trump/anti-Putin money train rolling. Look, we know now that the Iraq war was based upon lies of Sadam's WMD and even non-existent nukes, or was that "in my mind"? The NYT, WAPO, MSNBC, mainstream media went along, right? And that was not so long ago they pulled that shit off by "catapulting the propaganda." Well, place the two situations up against each other and see the similarities, especially Mueller's role. He's good. Very good. Hopefully this will not lead to war-war but a cold war with more expensive weapons needed, well, buy me some Raytheon and Boeing stocks today!


Jimbo - just hold your theories about what is “really” going on to the same scrutiny you do the Russia evidence.

You keep asking for US Intelligence to show evidence. But you would never believe any evidence that came from them anyhow. If they had video of Trump going down on Putin, you would insist that it must be CGI.

Nobody could blame you for not wanting to trust them. To a large degree, they brought that on themselves. But when you make the active presumption that they always are lying AND THEN give yourself license to make up whatever weak-tea scenario you want about the supposed truth. THAT is where you go off the rails.

So fine. Don’t feel convinced be the growing mountain of evidence? You show me evidence that there is a false flag conspiracy at play. I want something more than conjecture. Show me.

If you can’t, then admit that you’re just making shit up so we can all feel better about ignoring you and/or holding you in contempt.
“Remember I have said good things about benevolent despots before.” - Jimbo

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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 20 Jul 2018, 19:39

Boom!

Michael Cohen Secretly Recorded Trump Discussing Payment to Former Playboy Model

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... e.amp.html
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 20 Jul 2018, 19:46

So, Rudy is a lawyer. Was he ever a good lawyer? I mean, has he given a single response to anything Trump related that was not totally lame?

how likely is this to be seen as a violation of campaign finance laws?
Is that a stretch or not?
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Snarfyguy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 20 Jul 2018, 20:17

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Boom!

Michael Cohen Secretly Recorded Trump Discussing Payment to Former Playboy Model

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... e.amp.html

How much you want to bet Trump himself leaked this story in order to bump Helsinki-gate* off the front page? I mean, this story would have felt stale a month ago.


*(not to mention new revelations of "definitive proof that Donald Trump knew before the inauguration that Putin himself authorized the DNC hack and electoral ratfucking in 2016."

https://www.wonkette.com/intelligence-c ... r-on-trump)
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 20 Jul 2018, 20:20

If that’s his strategy, I think it will turn out to be a bad one.

I think all of this just chips away at him.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 20 Jul 2018, 21:12

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:If that’s his strategy, I think it will turn out to be a bad one.

I think all of this just chips away at him.

I don't know, having journalists chasing their tails with the slow, incremental revelations of the Trump/Cohen narrative is surely preferable to being denounced as a traitor from coast to coast.

We shall see.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 20 Jul 2018, 22:33

I don’t think the other one goes away.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 20 Jul 2018, 23:25

Davey the Fat Boy wrote: If you can’t, then admit that you’re just making shit up so we can all feel better about ignoring you and/or holding you in contempt.


Ignore me or hate me, if you are so brainwashed to believe the Russiagate narrative is real then I can't help you. But I will keep on digging out nuggets from the dwindling mine of truth so that one day when or you snap (or are bombed) out of your stupor you can see how wrong you were. Maybe then you will apologize for being so easily led, for having been a "good German."

In this article Margaret Kimberly (the newest member in my club of truth tellers) excoriates Congressional Black Caucus members for going along with the mania. I reproduced only the bit that seemed appropriate to the discussion at hand. I also need to demonstrate that I am not alone in my opinion. You get that, don't you?

Robert Mueller is no different from his prosecutor colleagues across the country. They lie. They over charge and force innocent people to plead guilty. They “squeeze” defendants with threats of draconian sentences and get them to turn on other people or even to tell lies themselves.

Mueller’s indictments of Russian officials is akin to the shady doings that he and the rest of his profession always engage in. After more than one year of investigation Mueller succeeded only in proving that Paul Manafort is a crook and that Donald Trump, Jr. is stupid. The charges against Manafort and Trump attorney Michael Cohen have nothing to do with the Russian collusion story at all. The indictments make a political rather than a criminal case and are a weak effort to prove that the year-long charade was worth carrying out at all.

The allegations made in the indictment are a rehash of claims that the Russian government hacked Democratic National Committee emails and used Wikileaks to release them and discredit Hillary Clinton. The indictment relies on the word of the DNC’s CrowdStrike firm who self-diagnosed a Russian hack without corroboration from anyone else.

Russia does not extradite its citizens so the indicted individuals will never appear in an American courtroom. Of course the last thing Mueller wants is to provide evidence in court. The real purpose of the investigation has succeeded. The goal is to make excuses for the Democratic Party elite, explain away their failures which led to Donald Trump’s election, protect the real electoral colluders in U.S. intelligence agencies, and prevent any normalization of relations between the United States and Russia.

The timing of the indictments killed many birds with one stone. They were a last ditch effort to embarrass Vladimir Putin as the soccer world cup wound down in Moscow and had the added benefit of delegitimizing the Trump and Putin summit meeting in Helsinki, Finland.

Mueller names 12 Russian nationals as military intelligence officers and also says that they conducted the hacking and leaking. He provides no evidence so the claims must be taken on blind faith, something that is never recommended where the feds are concerned.


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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 20 Jul 2018, 23:56

So...no proof.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby BARON CORNY DOG » 21 Jul 2018, 02:29

Jimbo wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote: If you can’t, then admit that you’re just making shit up so we can all feel better about ignoring you and/or holding you in contempt.


Ignore me or hate me, if you are so brainwashed to believe the Russiagate narrative is real then I can't help you. But I will keep on digging out nuggets from the dwindling mine of truth so that one day when or you snap (or are bombed) out of your stupor you can see how wrong you were. Maybe then you will apologize for being so easily led, for having been a "good German."


Fuck you, Jimbo.

Jimbo wrote:In this article Margaret Kimberly (the newest member in my club of truth tellers) excoriates Congressional Black Caucus members for going along with the mania. I reproduced only the bit that seemed appropriate to the discussion at hand. I also need to demonstrate that I am not alone in my opinion. You get that, don't you?

Robert Mueller is no different from his prosecutor colleagues across the country. They lie. They over charge and force innocent people to plead guilty. They “squeeze” defendants with threats of draconian sentences and get them to turn on other people or even to tell lies themselves.

Mueller’s indictments of Russian officials is akin to the shady doings that he and the rest of his profession always engage in. After more than one year of investigation Mueller succeeded only in proving that Paul Manafort is a crook and that Donald Trump, Jr. is stupid. The charges against Manafort and Trump attorney Michael Cohen have nothing to do with the Russian collusion story at all. The indictments make a political rather than a criminal case and are a weak effort to prove that the year-long charade was worth carrying out at all.

The allegations made in the indictment are a rehash of claims that the Russian government hacked Democratic National Committee emails and used Wikileaks to release them and discredit Hillary Clinton. The indictment relies on the word of the DNC’s CrowdStrike firm who self-diagnosed a Russian hack without corroboration from anyone else.

Russia does not extradite its citizens so the indicted individuals will never appear in an American courtroom. Of course the last thing Mueller wants is to provide evidence in court. The real purpose of the investigation has succeeded. The goal is to make excuses for the Democratic Party elite, explain away their failures which led to Donald Trump’s election, protect the real electoral colluders in U.S. intelligence agencies, and prevent any normalization of relations between the United States and Russia.

The timing of the indictments killed many birds with one stone. They were a last ditch effort to embarrass Vladimir Putin as the soccer world cup wound down in Moscow and had the added benefit of delegitimizing the Trump and Putin summit meeting in Helsinki, Finland.

Mueller names 12 Russian nationals as military intelligence officers and also says that they conducted the hacking and leaking. He provides no evidence so the claims must be taken on blind faith, something that is never recommended where the feds are concerned.


https://www.blackagendareport.com/freed ... leadership


I'm glad you've found another person writing things on the internet that say what you want to believe or what sounds right to you, but it appears to be unmitigated nonsense.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 21 Jul 2018, 03:56

Jimbo quoting Kellyanne Conway, probably wrote:Mueller’s indictments of Russian officials is akin to the shady doings that he and the rest of his profession always engage in. After more than one year of investigation Mueller succeeded only in proving that Paul Manafort is a crook and that Donald Trump, Jr. is stupid. The charges against Manafort and Trump attorney Michael Cohen have nothing to do with the Russian collusion story at all. The indictments make a political rather than a criminal case and are a weak effort to prove that the year-long charade was worth carrying out at all.


Mueller names 12 Russian nationals as military intelligence officers and also says that they conducted the hacking and leaking. He provides no evidence so the claims must be taken on blind faith.


I'm finding it hard to believe this argument is being offered in good faith, but perhaps the author merely neglected to actually read, or even read about, the indictment. Devin Nunes actually argued that there was so much factual detail in it that is was too hard to understand, LOL. (apologies, I can't find attribution for that assertion, but I'm positive I read it somewhere today)

The total for the Ken Starr Clinton investigation, which lasted four and a half years, was $39.2 million, which apparently is around $58 million in today’s dollars. Mueller's spent, apparently, $7 million since May, 2017, so I don't even want to hear about it.

Anyway, I would expect a counter-narrative to offer something more than just yelling about how the official stay is fake. Even the flat-Earth and gravity-is-just-a-theory conspiracy websites have some sort of alternative explanation for the topic at hand.

Do you actually disbelieve the unanimous conclusions of all our experts, or do you just think it's more fun to imagine that consensus reality is some kind of charade?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 21 Jul 2018, 07:51

Another member of Team Jimbo jumps ship...

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... tic-219022
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 23 Jul 2018, 07:40

You thought that maybe after more and more anti-Russia nuggets were coming from newsrooms I had given in to your pod ways. Well, I was almost there when even my best "sources" seemed to be writing less on the matter but then when I checked a few minutes ago along came my Caitlain to the rescue!

Until hard, verifiable proof of Russian election interference and/or collusion with the Trump campaign is made publicly available, we are winning this debate as long as we continue pointing out that this proof doesn’t exist yet. All you have to do to beat a Russiagater in a debate is to point this out. They’ll cite assertions made by the US intelligence community, but assertions are not proof. They’ll cite the assertions made in the recent Mueller indictment as proof, but all the indictment contains is more assertions. The only reason Russiagaters confuse assertions for proof is because the mass media treats them as such, but there’s no reason to play along with that delusion.

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/the- ... 0b5e3602a3

Tell 'em Katy! Did Russia really hack the election? Let's see some proof pod people. I'll go off on my own limb and guess that when it comes time for the CIA, etc., to show us the proof they'll back off citing that shit about keeping their methods secret. (I did say "guess.")
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Diamond Dog » 23 Jul 2018, 08:34

"Ooh, look at me - I'm a Russiagater! Come join the club!"
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 23 Jul 2018, 14:33

Jimbo - Do you have proof that 9/11 was an inside job?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 23 Jul 2018, 15:41

I have an inkling why you are asking this question but I would like you to tell me your point in asking.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 23 Jul 2018, 15:53

Just teasing out the difference in terms of how you regard the required standard of proof.

Your argument regarding 9/11 is that there are open questions that deserve investigation. That’s the exact same argument in favor of Mueller’s probe.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby toomanyhatz » 23 Jul 2018, 20:28

1) The term "confirmation bias" might apply here.
2) Part of that is, Jimbo really seems to have more belief in stuff that doesn't meet the burden of proof than stuff that does. Intelligence agencies all independently saying the same thing tickles his Jimbo sense, Trump being his consistent arrogant self doesn't. Too pat.

That would all be fine with me if not for the fact that "proof" isn't even an important element in how he determines what's true and what isn't.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 23 Jul 2018, 22:18

There's no "proof" of anything (except in mathematics, I guess) until someone gets in a court of law and establishes it, and even then, the evidence used for a judge or jury to arrive at the conclusion that something is "true" isn't necessarily even going to be made public.

This is all very handy in cases where you don't want to believe something (like say, for example if you're Donald Trump, or Jimbo), but it's also ridiculous on its face when the evidence that is publicly available has been characterized (on both sides of the aisle) as "unassailable" and "irrefutable."

Anyway, I suggest we stop wasting our time with these ontological parlor games and do something useful, like wave our arms in the air!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 23 Jul 2018, 22:55

Some of this is down to Jimbo simply being a really really bad spokesperson for his opinion.

If someone said, “By all means, let’s investigate any and all leads. Let’s protect ourselves from the possibility of future attacks, and figure out what Trump’s relationship with Russia is. But let’s not jump to conclusions. Let’s be aware that our intelligence agencies have historically given us reason to doubt them. Oh...and while we are at it, let’s look at some of our actions towards other countries too and demand better going forward,” - would anyone here find that unreasonable?

But that’s not enough for Comrade Jimbo and his merry band of Russia-sympathizers.
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