"Fake News"

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks

Ban "fake news" sites?

Yes
1
14%
No
6
86%
 
Total votes: 7

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Jimbo
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Jimbo » 11 Mar 2017, 12:00

PresMuffley wrote:I fail to understand what this has to do with anything.


Fake news, dumbass. :roll:

The next time you hear an establishment corporate shill loser like Hillary Clinton and her minions blame her shit on Russian fake news do not believe it.
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PresMuffley
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby PresMuffley » 11 Mar 2017, 12:01

So you don't have me on ignore. Bummer.
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 11 Mar 2017, 17:29

Jimbo wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote: They said you have to consider where the stories came from. That's not a denial..


No, you dolt. "You have to consider where the story comes from," is not a journalistic dictum but a deflection, an alibi. "Oh, you heard Hatz is a BCB member? Where'd you get that? From Jimbo? That whackjob? You better consider where your story comes from before you come at Toomanyhatz."

Well, in any case. You may remain in denial about this smearing of Russia being a font of mis and disinformation in order to hide the mistakes and misdeeds of the US, Dems and now Canadians but I ain't buying it.


Is Comrade Jimbo really worried about Russia being smeared? He must be, because he keeps saying it.

The small kernel of a point I'll give him is that the original attack article on Freedland wasn't "fake news" per se. But she never claimed it was. She warned that the broadside on her was part of Russian efforts to destabilize western democracies. Perhaps it would have been more precise of her to have blamed pro-Russian efforts rather than Russian efforts - but otherwise her response is completely fair.

As I said, the first Consortium News article wasn't so much guilty of fake news as it was a very slanted and targeted attack. The follow-up article by Parry that Jimbo posted however...that might just be one of the most dishonest pieces of so-called journalism that I've ever seen taken seriously. How dare she suspect Russia is behind an article that goes to such pains to paint her as anti-Russian!?!!!

Meanwhile Jimbo's worried about smears on countries. Incredibly rich after all of the things he has said about the US and now Canada.
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 11 Mar 2017, 18:06

I've only skimmed this but I like the title...


How Putin Played the Far Left
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... -left.html
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PresMuffley
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby PresMuffley » 11 Mar 2017, 18:13

I voted Stein in the past two elections. Not because I'm a dupe, but because I live in a solid red state. My vote here is pointless.
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PresMuffley
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby PresMuffley » 11 Mar 2017, 18:16

The most important thing I learned from that article is that Cohen is married to Katrina vanden Heuvel.
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toomanyhatz
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby toomanyhatz » 11 Mar 2017, 19:06

Jimbo, you can keep your one-man crusade going from your little tin-foil tower into eternity. Have fun. But if you expect anyone to take you seriously, you need to impose the same rigor on yourself that you claim to be insisting on from everyone else.

Let me put this in terms even you can understand (though I imagine your response will be yet another irrelevant link). If CN was interested in pushing the truth rather than an agenda, they would have:

a) Put the exact quotes from Freeland and her team IN CONTEXT - in other words, what question was asked to elicit that response. You can't say "they're deflecting the blame onto Russia!" if the question was "so what do you think of all these pro-Russian articles?" And don't present it as if she was being asked about her grandfather. It's not made clear whether she was or wasn't.

b) Quoted the exact response from Freeland's team. Don't report it as "[Freeland's] office denied that her grandfather was a Nazi collaborator" when they did no such thing. Or if they did, then THEY (CN) have the burden of proving it.

Now whether Canada's press was pushing their agenda too is irrelevant to whether CN was. As is what Freeland's exact role was. Canada's national press could be spreading lies from here to Siberia and it would still be true. If you claim to be fighting for truth, you need to fight back with truth. Not more of the same shit from a different angle.
Jimbo wrote:A discredited and shady online publication which gets its information straight from Vladmir Putin himself has accused our hometown good boy Toomanyhatz of belonging to an online band of junkies and McDonald's eaters.
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PresMuffley
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby PresMuffley » 11 Mar 2017, 23:47

http://truthdig.com/avbooth/item/is_objective_journalism_dead_20170310

^Interesting interview with former Marketplace reporter Lewis Wallace who was fired for making this personal blog post titled: Objectivity is dead, and I’m okay with it

https://medium.com/@lewispants/objectivity-is-dead-and-im-okay-with-it-7fd2b4b5c58f#.1sglj3ich
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Jimbo » 12 Mar 2017, 02:20

toomanyhatz wrote: If CN was interested in pushing the truth rather than an agenda, they would have.


I think CN's agenda is "pushing the truth." What do you think their agenda is?
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toomanyhatz
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby toomanyhatz » 12 Mar 2017, 06:22

Jimbo wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote: If CN was interested in pushing the truth rather than an agenda, they would have.


I think CN's agenda is "pushing the truth." What do you think their agenda is?


Who knows? Ego, a feeling of superiority? Maybe somewhere in the back of Parry's scoffing, eye-rolling head he legitimately does think the truth is important, but he's only capable of expressing himself via slant. I just know CN spends a whole lot of time telling people what they should be concluding. Did you even read what comes after what you quoted? If he's so interested in the truth, why did he skip right past such important facts in telling us how we should feel?
Jimbo wrote:A discredited and shady online publication which gets its information straight from Vladmir Putin himself has accused our hometown good boy Toomanyhatz of belonging to an online band of junkies and McDonald's eaters.
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Jimbo
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Jimbo » 12 Mar 2017, 06:29

toomanyhatz wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote: If CN was interested in pushing the truth rather than an agenda, they would have.


I think CN's agenda is "pushing the truth." What do you think their agenda is?


Who knows? Ego, a feeling of superiority?


Usual mealy mouthed BS, Hatz. You say above he has an agenda yet when pressed you say "who knows?" You could probably easily say what FOX News or even MSNBC's is. Why not CN's? Could CN's be whatever the Kremlin wants? :?
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toomanyhatz
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby toomanyhatz » 12 Mar 2017, 06:48

ME mealy-mouthed? You can't even answer a simple question. The EXACT quote from your hero truth-seeker is "her office denied..." They didn't. Either he out-and-out lied, or didn't think backing up his statement with evidence was important. Once again - if the truth is so important why did he feel the need to skim over that? He spends so much of that interview saying you can't just say something without proving it when in his own article he does exactly that. Seriously, fuck him and the horse he rode in on. I accept it from you because I know you're enjoying your little rebel stance. But he's masquerading as a journalist, and he doesn't even know the first rule of journalism. The FIRST thing they teach you is don't tell, SHOW. He tells and doesn't show shit.
Jimbo wrote:A discredited and shady online publication which gets its information straight from Vladmir Putin himself has accused our hometown good boy Toomanyhatz of belonging to an online band of junkies and McDonald's eaters.
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Jimbo
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Jimbo » 12 Mar 2017, 07:22

toomanyhatz wrote:ME mealy-mouthed? You can't even answer a simple question. The EXACT quote from your hero truth-seeker is "her office denied..." They didn't. Either he out-and-out lied, or didn't think backing up his statement with evidence was important. Once again - if the truth is so important why did he feel the need to skim over that? He spends so much of that interview saying you can't just say something without proving it when in his own article he does exactly that. Seriously, fuck him and the horse he rode in on. I accept it from you because I know you're enjoying your little rebel stance. But he's masquerading as a journalist, and he doesn't even know the first rule of journalism. The FIRST thing they teach you is don't tell, SHOW. He tells and doesn't show shit.


Here is from the Ottawa paper a couple of pages back I trust you read which absolutely backs up CN's version of events. "The Globe and Mail also reported that an official in Freeland’s office denied the minister’s grandfather was a Nazi collaborator." If you want to know the question the reporter asked at the FM's office I just have to speculate that it went something like this: "There is a report that the FM's grandfather worked for the Nazis. Is it true?" And then they, or an official lied and denied it.

I can't fathom why you are so hung up on this? Politicians' "offices" often deny their bosses' foibles. But the larger issue is how when the record shows he was a Nazi she blames Russian fake news for letting the cat out of the bag. Which is another lie. And that is bad because as we inch closer and closer to war with Russia an accusation like that, especially from the FM's mouth and office, exacerbates the situation.

And therein lies CN's agenda. The Truth, and via truth hopefully comes peace. They are not owned by a large corporation or stand to make millions form online subscribers but are a consortium of professional investigative journalists. They have been on the Ukraine and Syria story since day one and too bad for John McCane and HRC, their lies are being exposed but sadly with mealy mouthed knuckle heads like you and Davey, disregarded for the bullshit of, I don't know who, the aluminum tube/WMD New York Times?

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/ ... nformation
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toomanyhatz
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby toomanyhatz » 12 Mar 2017, 07:43

Jimbo wrote:Here is from the Ottawa paper...which absolutely backs up CN's version of events.


No, actually it doesn't.

"The Globe and Mail also reported that an official in Freeland’s office denied the minister’s grandfather was a Nazi collaborator."


No, they didn't.

If you want to know the question the reporter asked at the FM's office I just have to speculate...


Stop right there. If you have to speculate, you have no business accepting CN's claim about it. End of story.

I can't fathom why you are so hung up on this?


Not hung up on it at all. Just not going to take it at face value without evidence. As your man himself says, you can't just say something, you have to prove it. And then he does exactly what he claims you can't do. Repeatedly.

They are not owned by a large corporation or stand to make millions form online subscribers but are a consortium of professional investigative journalists.


Utterly irrelevant. If they're claiming to be journalists, there are standards that have to be met for them to be taken seriously. They don't meet them. Their intent might be perfectly noble. But they still need to be judged on their content, regardless.

you and Davey, disregarded for the bullshit of, I don't know who, the aluminum tube/WMD New York Times?


Don't want to speak for Davey here, but just speaking for myself, I don't "regard" anyone just on name and reputation. I use my critical thinking skills. You should try it some time.
Jimbo wrote:A discredited and shady online publication which gets its information straight from Vladmir Putin himself has accused our hometown good boy Toomanyhatz of belonging to an online band of junkies and McDonald's eaters.
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Jimbo
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Jimbo » 12 Mar 2017, 08:15

So if the Globe and Mail didn't say her office denied it but that CN did then that obliterates the rest of the story? Because, I hate to say you are right but I reread the G&M story linked in the CN story and I can't find where they write that Freeland's office denied the charge. It is such a small point you made is why I missed it.

Nonetheless, CN doesn't say the G&M reported it. The Ottawa paper did. Your picayune charge should be with them not CN. What Parry wrote was, "Though Freeland did not comment directly on the truthfulness of our article, her office denied that her grandfather was a Nazi collaborator." CN does not attribute the denial to the G&M report. I have to assume then that it was CN which asked her office and it was was then - when asked by CN - they they denied it. Attribution is unneeded because CN is the author of the article. If the Ottawa paper had said "CN says her office denied it," that would have been correct.

And the largest point stands whichever venue tells the story. The foreign minster blamed Russian fake news for a story which came from Consortium News.
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toomanyhatz
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby toomanyhatz » 12 Mar 2017, 08:55

Jimbo wrote: I hate to say you are right but...


Why do you hate to say it? The truth is the ultimate goal, right? Whether it was CN or the Ottawa paper is irrelevant. You accepted something as truth without checking it out. I checked it out and found what you were accepting to be unsupported. Mealy-mouthed knucklehead that I am, I like facts. Call me old-fashioned.

Your picayune charge should be with them not CN.


It wasn't a charge. It was a reaction to what you were accepting. You used it as support for your argument. "Picayune" is a rather odd word to be using when it was you that was placing value on the statement, not me.

I have to assume...


There you go again. If you have to assume, you're concluding something without facts to back up your supposition. Those facts may actually exist. But until they're presented to me, I'm not taking what you or CN or the Ottawa Citizen or the guy who lives down the road tells me at face value. Show, don't tell.

The foreign minster blamed Russian fake news for a story which came from Consortium News.


Maybe she did and maybe she didn't. I can't seem to find a single verified source anywhere for exactly what she was asked. It certainly didn't say anywhere that she was responding to the CN story, because CN says right there in their article that she didn't respond directly to their story.

Look, I'm not defending her or her grandfather. She might be a out-and-out liar and a Russia scapegoater, and he might have been a gleeful Nazi. I'm just saying that to conclude either of those things, I need to be presented with enough verified information to come to that conclusion myself. It's about what I'm being told, not who's telling me.
Jimbo wrote:A discredited and shady online publication which gets its information straight from Vladmir Putin himself has accused our hometown good boy Toomanyhatz of belonging to an online band of junkies and McDonald's eaters.
.
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Jimbo
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Jimbo » 12 Mar 2017, 09:16

This is just too petty for me to argue over anymore. I'll give you a check for careful reading and a demerit for me. But I give kudos to the journalists who called bullshit on this lying warmongering bitch.
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PresMuffley
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby PresMuffley » 12 Mar 2017, 09:52

Whew! About time you two put that one to rest!

Did any of you listen to the interview I posted above? Here's the direct KCRW link (I realize some might not care for Truth Dig):

https://www.kcrw.com/news-culture/shows/scheer-intelligence/lewis-wallace-is-objectivity-dead

I think Robert Scheer raises some excellent points and the entire 30 minute interview is relevant to this thread. If any of you get a chance, it would be nice to hear some feed back.
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 12 Mar 2017, 15:36

Jimbo wrote:And the largest point stands whichever venue tells the story. The foreign minster blamed Russian fake news for a story which came from Consortium News.


Actually that point doesn't stand. She never called the article "fake news." That's an impression that Parry works hard to manufacture, but it just isn't true.

What she does is blame the existence of the story on Russia (which we've pointed out, is reasonable given that the article is inexplicably more focused on her relationship to Russia rather than her grandfather's relationship to the Third Reich). At most, she erred in locating the attack on her as Russia when she could have said pro-Russian writers.

That seems a small point though. The larger point is that A) Parry edited and fact-checked a manipulative piece that bent over backwards to use her grandfather's past to attack her as anti-Russian. B) Parry then follows up with an even more manipulative piece that both tries to make it seem like she denied her uncles' past AND that she called the story fake news AND that the obvious pro-Russian agenda she perceived in the first story wasn't apparent for all to see.

But C) is worse than all of the above. C) is the fact that folks like Jimbo swallow all of that shit and hold someone like Parry up as some kind of super-journalist. You'd think that people who have reached such distrust of mainstream news would be more discerning...but I guess not.
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 12 Mar 2017, 15:41

PresMuffley wrote:Whew! About time you two put that one to rest!

Did any of you listen to the interview I posted above? Here's the direct KCRW link (I realize some might not care for Truth Dig):

https://www.kcrw.com/news-culture/shows/scheer-intelligence/lewis-wallace-is-objectivity-dead

I think Robert Scheer raises some excellent points and the entire 30 minute interview is relevant to this thread. If any of you get a chance, it would be nice to hear some feed back.


I listened to about 15 minutes yesterday. Still need to finish. Maybe they get into more compelling ground later in the interview. What I heard hasn't delved that far into the objectivity /subjectivity dichotomy yet.

I do hope that at some point Scheer lets his guest talk more.
Last edited by Davey the Fat Boy on 12 Mar 2017, 16:11, edited 2 times in total.
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