The future of the Labour Party

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Darkness_Fish
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Darkness_Fish » 18 Feb 2019, 15:07

Toby wrote:The issue here is the leader though. The Tories are split on Brexit but united behind May on crucial government votes.

Very united indeed. No ERG splinter-group acting as a party within a party.

No major government defeats recently on key government bills :lol:
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby The Modernist » 18 Feb 2019, 15:07

Goat Boy wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:How selfish of her for not sticking around.


Care to address the point I was making?


What point is that exactly?


That their constituents have the right to choose between this new independent party and The Labour Party, who, after all, they voted for. In other words, having taken this action, the seven mps should put themselves forward for a by-election.

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Diamond Dog » 18 Feb 2019, 15:11

That implies some kind of honour over personal gain. Hence why it won't happen.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Goat Boy » 18 Feb 2019, 15:17

Will try again later but not on my phone whilst trying to type with cold hands!
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Copehead wrote:a right wing cretin like Berger....bleating about racism

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Penk! » 18 Feb 2019, 15:23

Goat Boy wrote:Considering the abuse and bullying Luciana Berger has been exposed to and the lack of support one can hardly blame her - and others - for jumping this toxic ship in protest.


Well any abuse or bullying is obviously out of order, but let’s not pretend Berger was free of controversy; it’s hardly surprising that the party leadership wasn’t on her side given how she has acted.

Ultimately the problem is that often entirely valid criticism of Berger and others with pro-Israel views boils over into inflammatory language and there’s a very hazy dividing line there. When this comes from party members it’s certainly something Corbyn and co have been very ineffective on even though I don’t believe he himself is anti-semitic.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Toby » 18 Feb 2019, 15:25

Darkness_Fish wrote:
Toby wrote:The issue here is the leader though. The Tories are split on Brexit but united behind May on crucial government votes.

Very united indeed. No ERG splinter-group acting as a party within a party.

No major government defeats recently on key government bills :lol:


The vote of no confidence was won by the govt because they are united in not wanting a Corbyn govt. A more centrist leader in opposition might have been different.

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby The Prof » 18 Feb 2019, 15:34

Bullying, abuse and internet trolls & keyboard warriors are one thing but if I've learn't anything from the press conference on the BBC this morning, it'is all you need to do is add 'hastag JC4PM' after any nasty post on Facebook and it immediately marks you out as a Labour Party member and a problem for Jeremy Corbyn.

After all nobody (not even those with an agenda of getting rid of him) would ever think to add #JC4MP after posting something vile on the internet

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Darkness_Fish » 18 Feb 2019, 15:42

Toby wrote:The vote of no confidence was won by the govt because they are united in not wanting a Corbyn govt. A more centrist leader in opposition might have been different.

The vote of no confidence was won, because turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Penk! » 18 Feb 2019, 15:47

Darkness_Fish wrote: turkeys don't vote for Christmas.


How do you explain the EU referendum result then?
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby the masked man » 18 Feb 2019, 15:50

PENK wrote:
Darkness_Fish wrote: turkeys don't vote for Christmas.


How do you explain the EU referendum result then?


Simple. No one who voted leave had any idea there were any significant downsides to leaving the EU. After all, there was going to be a weekly £350m windfall for the NHS after the easiest deal in history.....

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby yomptepi » 18 Feb 2019, 15:55

the masked man wrote:
PENK wrote:
Darkness_Fish wrote: turkeys don't vote for Christmas.


How do you explain the EU referendum result then?


Simple. No one who voted leave had any idea .


Is the truth of it.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Copehead » 18 Feb 2019, 16:33

yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:
The Prof wrote:
They pretty much think Corbyn is toxic to the majority of left leaning voters.


Hence his winning 2 leadership elections and hitting 40% in the polls.

The only thing Corbyn is toxic too is their career opportunities, they know they are likely to be deselected and they are jumping before they are pushed to cause maximum damage.

You just know that the BBC will now ignore the Labour Party and pretend this rump of right wing fantasists are the left wing opposition to the Tories now.


Hard to see that predicted 400 seat majority coming to pass now Will. Time for some scientific recalculations I suspect.


If the Tories weren't even more badly split than Labour they'd suspend Article 50 and call an election right now and get a 50 seat majority on a wave of negative publicity for Corbyn.

But they have far more pressing problems than winning an election.

I imagine the unmagnificent 7 must be heartbroken they couldn't get a single Tory to come and join them in the excitingly named Independent Group, not even Soubry who has been crying crocodile tears about the NHS, poor people and Brexit for years now.

But she has a meal ticket for life and she isn't going to lose that for any principles she may claim to have.

Sadly for Chuckles and co their meal tickets were about to be rescinded and they are going to shit the bed as violently as possible before leaving.

Should be fun
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby yomptepi » 18 Feb 2019, 16:35

But they all have three and a half years left before they lose their seats. Corbyn will probably be dead by then.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Copehead » 18 Feb 2019, 16:36

Goat Boy wrote:
PENK wrote:
The Prof wrote:
They pretty much think Corbyn is toxic to the majority of left leaning voters.


Well yeah, but there are four of them. How many votes is their new party going to get? How much say are they going to have on a Brexit six weeks away?

This just seems like a temper tantrum aimed at destabilising the only opposition just when what’s needed is a strong and united opposition.


Considering the abuse and bullying Luciana Berger has been exposed to and the lack of support one can hardly blame her - and others - for jumping this toxic ship in protest.


Yes Berger has been bullied by her anti-semitic CLP chairman, who just happens to be a disabled Jewish man who isn't a right wing cretin like Berger.

She was being deselected because she doesn't represent the views of her constituents let alone her local Party, he ethnicity has nothing to do with it. It iOS like suggesting Chuckles was being dumped because he was Black rather than because he was right wing and useless.

At least he hasn't started bleating about racism like Berger has. A very small plus point in his favour.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Copehead » 18 Feb 2019, 16:38

yomptepi wrote:But they all have three and a half years left before they lose their seats. Corbyn will probably be dead by then.


Well he is far more likely to be killed by rightwing extremists than Berger is by the Unicorn like Left Wing antisemitic hoard I'll give you that.

Your lot already have one Labour MP under their belt and I'm sure they would be happy to bag Corbyn.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Copehead » 18 Feb 2019, 16:39

Toby wrote:7 MPs at once is significant. Others may be tempted to follow them.


Surely if you are going to go you'd go now.

the only people likely to follow them are anyone who is going to be deselected by their CLP.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby yomptepi » 18 Feb 2019, 16:40

I'd shoot him myself given half a chance...
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Copehead » 18 Feb 2019, 16:41

Toby wrote:There is something in McDonnell's comments that they were elected on Corbyn''s manifesto and that, as independents, they should trigger by-elections.

The issue here is the leader though. The Tories are split on Brexit but united behind May on crucial government votes. Labour is not united and under Corbyn they never will be.

I doubt however whether this split is going to be enough unless more senior members gravitate towards them.


The idea that the Labour Party is more split than the Tories is risible.

The Tory Party just isn't democratic enough to get rid of sitting MPs thus triggering antics like this
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Copehead » 18 Feb 2019, 17:16

How will the Labour Party survive without talent like this

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/18/angela-smith-apologises-for-funny-tinge-remark

Angela Smith has apologised for having “misspoke” after she appeared to refer to BAME people as having a “funny tinge”.


Good start for the Independent Group, alienating a good proportion of the voting public :)
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby northernsky » 18 Feb 2019, 18:17

yomptepi wrote:I'd shoot him myself given half a chance...


Oh DO stop it :roll: