The future of the Labour Party

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Diamond Dog
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Diamond Dog » 15 Dec 2017, 11:49

Toby wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:Have you any faith in her, or her Govt, to get a good deal?


I don't really. But the government's position is at least clear, in that they want to deliver Brexit.

I don't think Labour has a clear position at all, apart from the fact that McDonnell & Corbyn want out in their heart of hearts, but they know that the people that voted for them in the election want in.


Labour's position is confused - at best. I grant you that.

But Labour aren't the Govt delivering on their own referendum result.

May herself was a Remain campaigner - she doesn't want to deliver Brexit, she is forced to do so. Her position is, in many ways, worse than Corbyn's (and that takes some believing)... she not only is a Remain person, she actually put herself forward to be the PM delivering Leave! I mean, how fucked is that?!
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Samoan » 15 Dec 2017, 13:05

Toby wrote:..
I don't think Labour has a clear position at all, apart from the fact that McDonnell & Corbyn want out in their heart of hearts, but they know that the people that voted for them in the election want in.

They don't currently have a definitive stance and I get why, it's understandable.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/11/jeremy-corbyn-refuses-to-firm-up-labours-brexit-plans

I do differ from you in thinking that Labour voters were necessarily Remain voters.

Personally I've always declined to confirm, when doorstopped or on exiting the polling station (or indeed I've sent them on a wild goose chase) my voting intentions about anything to any political party activist. I can't say anyone ever canvassed me regarding the referendum.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Eddie Shah environment » 15 Dec 2017, 13:07

Did any of you see QT last night?

I had to watch half of it through my hands, and Isabel Oakeshott is appalling, but it reminded me that there were/are a fair number of working-class Labour voters in favour of Brexit.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Samoan » 15 Dec 2017, 13:19

I didn't catch it, no. I may have a look on the I Player
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Diamond Dog » 15 Dec 2017, 13:22

!!VAPRANT!! wrote:... but it reminded me that there were/are a fair number of working-class Labour voters in favour of Brexit.


Oh there are loads of them. Just as there were many Tories who were fervently Remain.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Toby » 15 Dec 2017, 15:24

!!VAPRANT!! wrote:Did any of you see QT last night?

I had to watch half of it through my hands, and Isabel Oakeshott is appalling, but it reminded me that there were/are a fair number of working-class Labour voters in favour of Brexit.


This is the issue that could still kill Labour in the north. If they scupper Brexit (which is entirely possible) the communities that voted Leave/and are trad Labour - will never vote for them again.

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby The Prof » 15 Dec 2017, 15:48

!!VAPRANT!! wrote:Isabel Oakeshott is appalling


She's awful and her attitude of a family of 5 can live on a £1 bag of porridge for a week reeks too.

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Deebank » 15 Dec 2017, 16:08

The Prof wrote:
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:Isabel Oakeshott is appalling


She's awful and her attitude of a family of 5 can live on a £1 bag of porridge for a week reeks too.


It's in her favour that she's the one who publicised the story of Cameron and the pig's head though.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby The Prof » 15 Dec 2017, 16:27

....to sell a book.

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Deebank » 15 Dec 2017, 16:43

The Prof wrote:....to sell a book.


Sure. She's dreadful, but that story cheered me up at the time.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Toby » 15 Dec 2017, 16:49

Related no doubt to Michael Oakeshott, the stand out conservative philosopher of the 20th century.

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Pansy Puff » 15 Dec 2017, 16:59

Toby wrote:
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:Did any of you see QT last night?

I had to watch half of it through my hands, and Isabel Oakeshott is appalling, but it reminded me that there were/are a fair number of working-class Labour voters in favour of Brexit.


This is the issue that could still kill Labour in the north. If they scupper Brexit (which is entirely possible) the communities that voted Leave/and are trad Labour - will never vote for them again.

You hope.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Darkness_Fish » 15 Dec 2017, 17:02

Toby wrote:
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:Did any of you see QT last night?

I had to watch half of it through my hands, and Isabel Oakeshott is appalling, but it reminded me that there were/are a fair number of working-class Labour voters in favour of Brexit.


This is the issue that could still kill Labour in the north. If they scupper Brexit (which is entirely possible) the communities that voted Leave/and are trad Labour - will never vote for them again.

Whereas if Brexit happens, the economy tanks, the immigration levels remain the same, are they going to switch to Tory?
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Toby » 15 Dec 2017, 17:28

Darryl Strawberry wrote:
Toby wrote:
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:Did any of you see QT last night?

I had to watch half of it through my hands, and Isabel Oakeshott is appalling, but it reminded me that there were/are a fair number of working-class Labour voters in favour of Brexit.


This is the issue that could still kill Labour in the north. If they scupper Brexit (which is entirely possible) the communities that voted Leave/and are trad Labour - will never vote for them again.

You hope.


Actually, no.

I would not hope for the Labour party to be extinguished. It plays a fundamental role in British politics just like the Tories do. The destruction of a party would probably be filled by undesirables .

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby yomptepi » 15 Dec 2017, 19:57

Toby wrote:
I would not hope for the Labour party to be extinguished. It plays a fundamental role in British politics just like the Tories do. The destruction of a party would probably be filled by undesirables .


More undesirable than Emily Thornberry and John McDonnell?

I cannot imagine such a situation.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Jimbo » 29 Apr 2018, 11:05

Image

I'll bet some of you are going, "Yep, I l knew it was them russkies!"

Fuck your brazen attempt to keep the British people from reclaiming what is being stolen from them by an increasingly corporatist neoliberal government. Fuck your shameless “information war” which places the agendas of plutocrats and intelligence agencies above truth and honest discourse. Fuck your relentless propaganda campaign which smears anyone who remembers the lies they were told about Vietnam, Iraq and Libya as a “useful idiot” and arbitrarily labels any discussion of the very real phenomenon of false flag attacks as a “Kremlin talking point”.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Lord Rother » 29 Apr 2018, 12:32

Poor lassie.

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby kalowski II: The Revenge » 29 Apr 2018, 12:36

What’s that Lassie?

50 white Labour MPs, including Jess Philips, who supported Ruth Smeeth have stayed silent on abuse levelled at Diane Abbott?

Oh the snakes!
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Butch Manly » 29 Apr 2018, 13:33

Jimbo wrote:Image

I'll bet some of you are going, "Yep, I l knew it was them russkies!"

Fuck your brazen attempt to keep the British people from reclaiming what is being stolen from them by an increasingly corporatist neoliberal government. Fuck your shameless “information war” which places the agendas of plutocrats and intelligence agencies above truth and honest discourse. Fuck your relentless propaganda campaign which smears anyone who remembers the lies they were told about Vietnam, Iraq and Libya as a “useful idiot” and arbitrarily labels any discussion of the very real phenomenon of false flag attacks as a “Kremlin talking point”.
https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/fuck ... 380eac5e2c


The British establishment (and I include much of the Labour Party in that) is shitting itself at the prospect of a Corbyn as PM so the smear-campaigns are as relentless as they are shrill.

Do the Russians really want a Corbynite government? - I don't think all that dirty money in Knightsbridge and Mayfair (plenty of which finds its way into Tory politicians' bank accounts) would be too chuffed at the Labour Party's policies on closing tax loopholes, chasing tax avoiders and clamping down on money laundering through shell companies.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -companies

Of course, I'm sure Putin's quite happy to do a bit of destabilising of British politics on both sides but the ST's attempt to directly connect Corbyn to Russia when you've got Russian dirty money pouring the Tory party left, right and centre is a tad laughable.

http://www.24housing.co.uk/yournews/hou ... -oligarch/
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby yomptepi » 29 Apr 2018, 13:38

I think you are right. The Russians are much more interested in just being destabilising for the sake of it rather than acting in support of a a group of dim witted, champagne guzzling, Millionaire cod socialists.
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