The future of the Labour Party

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Goat Boy
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Goat Boy » 14 Dec 2017, 16:10

Darryl Strawberry wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:You said Priti Patel was to the right of Pol Pot. You call her a fucker, hideous and a cunt.

This sorta post from yourself in relation to the Tories is not unusual, K, let's face it because that's your personal bias.

If you're gonna criticise Coan for comments like that then I think it's a bit rich, you know?


Well, to quote the Big Lebowiski, "...say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos." I'm arguing a position. Coan's antipathy is miserable. He has no position because it's too hard. Any Patel is pretty fucking hideously right wing, however much you fancy her.


I think Coan has a position, he's just not as fervently attached to a group like you. I think it's actually easier to assume a position like yours and attach yourself to one particular group.
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Jimbo wrote:I will read your link but it seems you only read my poor synopsis and not the article, otherwise you''d say more than just insult my cred


I read the article, which was nonsense.

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby The Beatles » 14 Dec 2017, 16:12

Rayge wrote:
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:hence 'takes one to know one'?

I thought you were better than that kind of playground shit, Ray.


Well, first of all, I know for a fact that you love that 'playground shit', which makes up a large proportion of your posts, including the one I was commenting on, so as far as I was concerned I was replying in kind :) .


I might be wrong, but I don't think I've ever called anyone a cunt here and meant it. Not unless they've called me the same beforehand.

Something I've always found difficult to understand is when people hit back at other people personally just for criticising a musician or a politician or a writer or whatever they like.

Anyway - on we go.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Pansy Puff » 14 Dec 2017, 16:12

Goat Boy wrote:
Darryl Strawberry wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:You said Priti Patel was to the right of Pol Pot. You call her a fucker, hideous and a cunt.

This sorta post from yourself in relation to the Tories is not unusual, K, let's face it because that's your personal bias.

If you're gonna criticise Coan for comments like that then I think it's a bit rich, you know?


Well, to quote the Big Lebowiski, "...say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos." I'm arguing a position. Coan's antipathy is miserable. He has no position because it's too hard. Any Patel is pretty fucking hideously right wing, however much you fancy her.


I think Coan has a position, he's just not as fervently attached to a group like you. I think it's actually easier to assume a position like yours and attach yourself to one particular group.

I think you are being overgenerous with your interpretation of John's intentions. As if he's thought about it beforehand.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Goat Boy » 14 Dec 2017, 16:30

Darryl Strawberry wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:
Darryl Strawberry wrote:
Well, to quote the Big Lebowiski, "...say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos." I'm arguing a position. Coan's antipathy is miserable. He has no position because it's too hard. Any Patel is pretty fucking hideously right wing, however much you fancy her.


I think Coan has a position, he's just not as fervently attached to a group like you. I think it's actually easier to assume a position like yours and attach yourself to one particular group.

I think you are being overgenerous with your interpretation of John's intentions. As if he's thought about it beforehand.


Thought about politics? About Corbyn? I think he probably has.
LeBaron wrote:
Jimbo wrote:I will read your link but it seems you only read my poor synopsis and not the article, otherwise you''d say more than just insult my cred


I read the article, which was nonsense.

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Rayge » 14 Dec 2017, 17:32

!!VAPRANT!! wrote:I might be wrong, but I don't think I've ever called anyone a cunt here and meant it. Not unless they've called me the same beforehand.

Sorry about that. It never even occurred to me that I was calling you a cunt by saying that. It is, as you suggested, a playground riposte to what I saw as a provocative statement, meaning nothing in particular, to me at least. I apologize for calling you a cunt, but I certainly never meant it, in the sense of personal insult delivered in anger

!!VAPRANT!! wrote:Something I've always found difficult to understand is when people hit back at other people personally just for criticising a musician or a politician or a writer or whatever they like.


Um, bit disingenuous? I didn't see a criticism so much as a Yah-Boo-Sucks. But that's cleaving rabbits. Basically, didn't mean anything personal.

!!VAPRANT!! wrote:Anyway - on we go.


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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby gash on ignore » 14 Dec 2017, 17:33

What a bunch of cunts.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Copehead » 14 Dec 2017, 19:12

Toby wrote:Coan's pessimism is at least couched in some sort of pragmatic reality.

Yours is "they're right wing so they must be a cunt", which like most entrenched lefties (or entrenched right wingers) is slightly up and beyond cloud cuckoo land.


Almost Hobbesian in its intellectual rigour that one.

The idea that Coan's "They're all cunts" is couched in pragmatic reality is fucking pathetic. As DS said it is all too difficult for him and "they're all cunts" has been the cry of the intellectually challenged since Universal Suffrage.

The allusion that you aren't an entrenched right winger is also pretty laughable.

How is "They're all cunts" any better than "they are right wing and therefore a cunt"?

The original point was Priti Patel is a cunt, and that seems pretty unarguable, unless you would like to swing that massive brain of yours behind marshaling a defence of her attempt to divert the UK aid budget to the Israeli army.

That appears to me to be unarguably the action of a cunt.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby The Modernist » 15 Dec 2017, 07:30

Rayge wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:You said Priti Patel was to the right of Pol Pot. You call her a fucker, hideous and a cunt.

This sorta post from yourself in relation to the Tories is not unusual, K, let's face it because that's your personal bias.

If you're gonna criticise Coan for comments like that then I think it's a bit rich, you know?


I don't think it's so much the epithet as that it is applied across the board to all politicians, which makes it meaningless as a criticism of anyone in particular. While I have a lot of sympathy for that point of view, I don't really see it is appropriate or useful in the context of an old duffer wishing his Jewish constituents a Happy Hannukah. That's all.


Well said Ray.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Toby » 15 Dec 2017, 08:38

Copehead wrote:How is "They're all cunts" any better than "they are right wing and therefore a cunt"?


That view at least sits closer to the more sensible and reasonable position that there are essentially good and bad politicians on the spectrum that are not defined by their political hue. To suggest that only right wing politicians are awful is deeply misguided.

We should be judging politicians by their competence more than anything else. I'm in no doubt that this government has more than its fair share of incompetents, but the next iteration will be exactly the same.

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby The Modernist » 15 Dec 2017, 09:05

Toby wrote:
We should be judging politicians by their competence more than anything else.


I disagree with that. Obviously competence in any job is important, that's a given, but it shouldn't be the main yardstick. After all, it's up to senior civil servants to actually apply government policy in an efficient and practical way.
Politicians should be judged on what they stand for, their values and, most crucially of all, how hard they work to apply those values to what they do.

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Toby » 15 Dec 2017, 09:06

So if someone is incompetent but means well, that's ok?

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Diamond Dog » 15 Dec 2017, 09:07

Toby wrote:We should be judging politicians by their competence more than anything else. I'm in no doubt that this government has more than its fair share of incompetents, but the next iteration will be exactly the same.


But it's actually much easier to quantify with Ministers because they actually are there to do something other than be a constituency MP.

And this Govt, let's be fair, is a fucking shambles, led by a PM who is completely out of her depth. She took her own Govt into an unnecssary election (to give her a strong mandate with the EU) and then managed to lose that. She then makes a pact with the DUP, that has come back to bite her on her arse over the border issue (we'll stil have an open border with the EU - a bit strange considering it was all about 'taking back control'). And then to really compound it, she can't even get her own MP's to vote accordingly over a major Brexit bill - the day before she goes back to the EU to try to persuade them to move onto the next stage of the negotiation (a negotiation that is going to make the one we're just completing look like Janet & John).

Have you any faith in her, or her Govt, to get a good deal?
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby The Modernist » 15 Dec 2017, 09:08

Toby wrote:So if someone is incompetent but means well, that's ok?

The Modernist wrote: Obviously competence in any job is important,

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby The Beatles » 15 Dec 2017, 09:32

Can any of you remember a sitting UK government - in your lifetime - that did a good job, generally speaking?
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Diamond Dog » 15 Dec 2017, 09:34

!!VAPRANT!! wrote:Can any of you remember a sitting UK government - in your lifetime - that did a good job, generally speaking?


I think Blair's first govt did the job it had set out to do. Much as I dislike Thatcher, she absolutely did what she was elected to do for (probably) the first two Govt's. I think Wilson can be said to have been okay.
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Deebank » 15 Dec 2017, 09:44

!!VAPRANT!! wrote:Can any of you remember a sitting UK government - in your lifetime - that did a good job, generally speaking?


No government - whatever the stripe - is ever going to get everything right. Politics is the art of the possible (or whatever the phrase is). Compromises have to be made. It is always about voting for the least bad option

Despite having a long-term hatred of 'New Labour' that dated back to the reforms of the '80s when I was in the party and actively involved in politics, I was relatively content in that brief honeymoon period in the late '90s.

By the way you posted a singular 'Cunt' or maybe 'CUNT' on my birthday thread a couple of years ago.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby The Beatles » 15 Dec 2017, 09:49

:lol:

Oh, I make an exception in your case, you petty, snivelling mouthbreather.
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Toby » 15 Dec 2017, 09:53

Diamond Dog wrote:Have you any faith in her, or her Govt, to get a good deal?


I don't really. But the government's position is at least clear, in that they want to deliver Brexit.

I don't think Labour has a clear position at all, apart from the fact that McDonnell & Corbyn want out in their heart of hearts, but they know that the people that voted for them in the election want in.

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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Deebank » 15 Dec 2017, 10:35

!!VAPRANT!! wrote::lol:

Oh, I make an exception in your case, you petty, snivelling mouthbreather.



Good to know I got under your skin :lol:
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Re: The future of the Labour Party

Postby Rayge » 15 Dec 2017, 11:33

!!VAPRANT!! wrote:Can any of you remember a sitting UK government - in your lifetime - that did a good job, generally speaking?


Well, I was around for the last two years of the post-war Atlee government :) , which is probably the best we ever had, but from the time I was conscious, the 1966-70 Wilson government kept us out of the Vietnam War and won the World Cup.
There has never been good Tory government.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will