gender-free bathrooms

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks

?!?!?!?!?

ABSOLUTELY fair! and let's see more of it!
13
48%
I really don't know
3
11%
FUCK OFF
11
41%
 
Total votes: 27

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kath
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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby kath » 09 Apr 2016, 17:49

Fonz wrote:
Velvis wrote:Here's how I think it ought to be:

In public places, there should be

1) A ladies' room
2) A men's room
3) A single occupancy "any-gender" room

I don't think private businesses should be forced to have a third restroom, though.


I think this is reasonable.


agreed.

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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby Fonz » 09 Apr 2016, 17:50

I want to identify as a wildly talented rock god guitar player. Please.
Is there a special room I can go in?
Heyyyy!

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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby Dr Markus » 09 Apr 2016, 17:52

Fonz wrote:I want to identify as a wildly talented rock god guitar player. Please.
Is there a special room I can go in?



Image
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kath
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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby kath » 09 Apr 2016, 17:58

Fonz wrote:I want to identify as a wildly talented rock god guitar player. Please.
Is there a special room I can go in?


anything but a hotel room.

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quix
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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby quix » 09 Apr 2016, 18:03

Questions of identity are interesting.... What makes a Jew a Jew? I think I'm a Jew, my family and friends think I am too. Yet I don't believe in God and I don't practice Judaism. Even if I did, what difference would that make?

So.... Am I a Jew or not?

I think if i think I am and if other Jews think I am, then I am.

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BARON CORNY DOG
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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby BARON CORNY DOG » 09 Apr 2016, 18:59

Velvis wrote:
Cobbler Bob wrote:Who am I to tell a woman that her personal apprehension over new toilet rules is wrong? What business is it of mine?


It's a legitimate issue. But as hatz said above, statistically speaking, there are probably more incidences of violence against trans women and trans men over bathroom use than against cis women by trans women in bathrooms.


As I'm sure you can well imagine, I don't dispute the probable statistics at all. But if someone says it makes them very uneasy, I don't doubt that either and would try to respect it.
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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby toomanyhatz » 09 Apr 2016, 19:01

quix wrote:Questions of identity are interesting.... What makes a Jew a Jew? I think I'm a Jew, my family and friends think I am too. Yet I don't believe in God and I don't practice Judaism. Even if I did, what difference would that make?

So.... Am I a Jew or not?

I think if i think I am and if other Jews think I am, then I am.


It's a toughie.

My mom is Jewish by birth, but not a believer, and being raised in the era she was raised, her religious training was considered unimportant. So am I, never bar mitzvah'd, from a non-Jewish father, never went to temple except for family and friend-related ceremonies, was pretty much not at all raised in the faith or even culture, however you define that, Jewish? I've been told many times that I am, but definitely don't self-identify that way.

And like that story that Velvis told about the woman that self-identified as black despite no African heritage, it can't be completely down to self-identification. But it should mostly be, right?

Like I said - toughie.
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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby jimboo » 09 Apr 2016, 19:16

kath wrote:
Fonz wrote:
Velvis wrote:Here's how I think it ought to be:

In public places, there should be

1) A ladies' room
2) A men's room
3) A single occupancy "any-gender" room

I don't think private businesses should be forced to have a third restroom, though.


I think this is reasonable.


agreed.


Ahem.

jimboo wrote:So , a third one person toilet is an acceptable compromise ?


10 pages to get the obvious solution.
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quix
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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby quix » 09 Apr 2016, 19:37

toomanyhatz wrote:
quix wrote:Questions of identity are interesting.... What makes a Jew a Jew? I think I'm a Jew, my family and friends think I am too. Yet I don't believe in God and I don't practice Judaism. Even if I did, what difference would that make?

So.... Am I a Jew or not?

I think if i think I am and if other Jews think I am, then I am.


It's a toughie.

My mom is Jewish by birth, but not a believer, and being raised in the era she was raised, her religious training was considered unimportant. So am I, never bar mitzvah'd, from a non-Jewish father, never went to temple except for family and friend-related ceremonies, was pretty much not at all raised in the faith or even culture, however you define that, Jewish? I've been told many times that I am, but definitely don't self-identify that way.

And like that story that Velvis told about the woman that self-identified as black despite no African heritage, it can't be completely down to self-identification. But it should mostly be, right?

Like I said - toughie.


I think it's self identification and acceptance by a community who also identifies in the same way and accepts your identity.

So... If Betty finds a community of black African 12 year old boys who see themselves and her as a black African 12 year old boy then she's a black African 12 year old boy.

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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby Betty Denim » 09 Apr 2016, 19:59

What if I never find any 12 year old black American boys who see me as a 12 year old black American boy? I can still say I am one, yes?

Can I say I'm Jewish too?

Not being snarky at all, M. I'm completely perplexed by this.
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Betty Denim
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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby Betty Denim » 09 Apr 2016, 20:00

And if I identify as American, why can't I live there?
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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby Dr Markus » 09 Apr 2016, 20:10

Betty Denim wrote:
Not being snarky at all, M. I'm completely perplexed by this.


I don't think it is, but is M me?
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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby Betty Denim » 09 Apr 2016, 20:16

Dr Markus wrote:
Betty Denim wrote:
Not being snarky at all, M. I'm completely perplexed by this.


I don't think it is, but is M me?


Sorry, Quix.
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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby Dr Markus » 09 Apr 2016, 20:33

No bother.
Drama Queenie wrote:You are a chauvinist of the quaintest kind. About as threatening as Jack Duckworth, you are a harmless relic of that cherished era when things were 'different'. Now get back to drawing a moustache on that page three model

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quix
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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby quix » 09 Apr 2016, 21:06

Betty Denim wrote:What if I never find any 12 year old black American boys who see me as a 12 year old black American boy? I can still say I am one, yes?

Can I say I'm Jewish too?

Not being snarky at all, M. I'm completely perplexed by this.


You can say you're one if you like... You can
believe you're one. But I don't think anyone else will believe you're one and accept you as one.... Unless.... There are others like you who share the same belief/identity. People do and can change cultural identity... and nationality. I'm struggling with the age though! I need to think on that!

I guess what I'm saying is that I think personal identity is wrapped up in social identity.

I think gender is an identity... It might be derived from hormonal variances or not... I don't think that matters. The fact is some people might have a physical body of a man but feel and believe they are a woman. So.... Back to the thread... I'm ok with that and I'm ok with them using a female loo.

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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby Jimbo » 09 Apr 2016, 21:40

Is it presumptive of me to instantly refer to someone as a "she" or "he?"
Question authority.

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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby Velvis » 09 Apr 2016, 21:49

quix wrote:
Betty Denim wrote:What if I never find any 12 year old black American boys who see me as a 12 year old black American boy? I can still say I am one, yes?

Can I say I'm Jewish too?

Not being snarky at all, M. I'm completely perplexed by this.


You can say you're one if you like... You can
believe you're one. But I don't think anyone else will believe you're one and accept you as one.... Unless.... There are others like you who share the same belief/identity. People do and can change cultural identity... and nationality. I'm struggling with the age though! I need to think on that!

I guess what I'm saying is that I think personal identity is wrapped up in social identity.

I think gender is an identity... It might be derived from hormonal variances or not... I don't think that matters. The fact is some people might have a physical body of a man but feel and believe they are a woman. So.... Back to the thread... I'm ok with that and I'm ok with them using a female loo.


I know a couple of people who converted to Judaism. One of them was an Irish Catholic woman who converted when she got into a serious relationship with a Jewish woman. That relationship ended, and later she married a Jewish man, who later passed away. She then married an Irish Catholic man and got HIM to convert.

She's the most serious, observant Jew I know. Keeps kosher, observes the holidays, the whole nine yards.
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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby Velvis » 09 Apr 2016, 21:52

Jimbo wrote:Is it presumptive of me to instantly refer to someone as a "she" or "he?"


My trans friend tells me "they" is fine to use even in the singular, to refer to someone who is transitioning. Although my inner grammarian rebels, I go along.
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kath
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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby kath » 09 Apr 2016, 22:05

jimboo wrote:10 pages to get the obvious solution.


is this another prog thing?

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Re: gender-free bathrooms

Postby Betty Denim » 09 Apr 2016, 22:21

mission wrote:gravity's greedy fingerfucking


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