Life After Death

[Davey the Fat Boy]

No.

[Davey the Fat Boy]

Just for grins - let me see if I can draw a distinction for the more science-minded here:

If we were to truly buy into the notion that all perception is no more than brain response, we would have a pretty simple process to follow for all problems. Question #1 would be, "does this thing I am perceiving have the ability to hurt or kill me?" - as directive #1 is always survival. But after that, what other questions could possibly matter? Certainly not issues of meaning and self-awareness. After all, any worries along those lines ought to simply be a matter of getting the brain to produce other responses, wouldn't it? What else could possibly matter? These aren't real problems, they are response to stimuli.

Our "spirit" or "soul" or whatever word you prefer, is the part of us that does believe that these things actually matter.

[Six String]

That seems a funny idea to me, that you could 'prepare' for such a thing.

Perhaps to you, but it is a dominant idea in many religions ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afterlife ). The point of my question is that one can propose a way of measuring how important this notion is to an individual which depends on the amount of time and effort that individual spends on the subject.

Coming from a very religious family I have to say Ken is correct in his thoughts here. It reminds me of that Dylan line I live to quote, "everyone wants to to go to heaven but no one wants to die. Good question.

[Deebank]

Not sure if you've read Oliver Sacks's The Man Who Mistook His WIfe For A Hat Davey - and to be honest it's probably been 20 years or more since I did - but it is astonishing how 'personality' and 'self' can be substantially altered or even wiped out to an extent by physical damage to the brain.

There was a man who had his short term memory destroyed when he had a head injury - Sachs IIRC says he seemed 'soulless' - he did find peace gardening though, which is nice.

[Goat Boy]

I think we'll figure out consciousness out in the relatively near future. The advancements in mapping the brain and all that jazz are pretty incredible really but until we do there will always be the possibility to some that consciousness is metaphysical I guess.

In the future we'll be able to 'rewire' our brain signifantly by taking pills and potions. We're heading towards an age of of self-administered human engineering. Got some pesky childhood trauma? Take the blue pill and wave goodbye to that memory!

[jimboo]

As James T Kirk said.

You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away! I need my pain!

[Goat Boy]

Or more accurately...."you know....that pain and guilt cant be taken away...with...a wave of a magic wand...."

[echolalia]

In the future we'll be able to 'rewire' our brain signifantly by taking pills and potions. We're heading towards an age of of self-administered human engineering. Got some pesky childhood trauma? Take the blue pill and wave goodbye to that memory!

And in the case of childhood traumas inflicted by the Jimmy Saviles and **** *******s of this world, it will probably be cheaper than taking the fuckers to court, I suppose.

[jimboo]

Or more accurately....."you know...that pain and guilt cant be taken away...with...a wave of a magic wand...."

Very good.

[Rayge]

I think we'll figure out consciousness out in the relatively near future.

It's already been done, but I'm not sure which 'we' you are referring to here

[Goat Boy]

Me, Copehead and K.

[copehead]

Me, Copehead and K.

The three musketeers of BCB rationality, unhappily we lost our d'Artagnan - Hanging Monkey + in a recent BCB meltdown

[Rayge]

Me, Copehead and K.

Ah, thanks. Well, let's hope you catch up soon

[Davey the Fat Boy]

Not sure if you've read Oliver Sacks's The Man Who Mistook His WIfe For A Hat Davey - and to be honest it's probably been 20 years or more since I did - but it is astonishing how 'personality' and 'self' can be substantially altered or even wiped out to an extent by physical damage to the brain.

There was a man who had his short term memory destroyed when he had a head injury - Sachs IIRC says he seemed 'soulless' - he did find peace gardening though, which is nice.

Haven't read that book, but I've seen it first hand. My daughter had brain surgery in December, and her recovery has been slow enough that parts of her personality are still not back - and perhaps never will be. I work with people with dementia. My grandmother had dementia and her entire personality changed.

So yeah...I do think that the brain determines the lion's share of who we are. But I also think other parts of the body clearly store and process information in some minimal ways that can effect consciousness (DNA in particular ses to play a large role in determining who we will be). There is a constituency currently within the science community that has rejected the notion of brain as consciousness (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externalism ). One view holds that consciousness is a behavioral field in which the brain, body and outside world all serve as a nexus, and the fluctuations therein form what we would call our minds.

I'm not proclaiming this view correct. It rings true to me, but that doesn't make it so. I do think it is as valid as the one advanced here as fact though.

[copehead]

Me, Copehead and K.

The three musketeers of BCB rationality, unhappily we lost our d'Artagnan - Hanging Monkey + in a recent BCB meltdown

I hereby nominate Zen Coan as the fourth keeper of the (lack of) faith.

I was going to nominate Qube

[Davey the Fat Boy]

You guys should TOTALLY get t-shirts!

[copehead]

You guys should TOTALLY get t-shirts!

All for logic, Logic for all!!!

[clive gash]

Me, Copehead and K.

The three musketeers of BCB rationality, unhappily we lost our d'Artagnan - Hanging Monkey + in a recent BCB meltdown

Quasimodo surely?

[Zeke]

So who's Cardinal Richelieu? Davey?

[Deebank]

Perhaps you should all get the Mr Logic Shirts with the legend "I think therefore I am... A teat"