US v. UK, Round 12: Alcoholic Beverages

[copehead]

I was tempted by these US microbreweries but they seem to compete to turn out the most viciously over hopped beers that are too bitter to make any pretense at enjoying, Brew Dog in the UK do the same.

Fucking stupid idea.

Give me a nice malty best bitter any day of the week, or a roasted Mild.

Overhopped IPAs as some sort of macho ritual

This may have been a valid criticism five years ago, but it's pretty dated. There are still plenty of stupid beers, but like I said, it's blown up well beyond silly IPAs.

I will have another go then

I love my beer, but I have never been overly fond of IPA even before it fell into the hands of hip brewers with funny facial hair

The trouble is your craft brewing industry is vast and I bet few of them are stocked in the UK and most of those will be from the hip end of the spectrum I hate so much.

I will trawl the local beer emporia and supermarkets when I get home

[The Modernist]

Can't comment on the beer but Copey's dead right about the wine.

[sloopjohnc]

I was tempted by these US microbreweries but they seem to compete to turn out the most viciously over hopped beers that are too bitter to make any pretense at enjoying, Brew Dog in the UK do the same.

Fucking stupid idea.

Give me a nice malty best bitter any day of the week, or a roasted Mild.

Overhopped IPAs as some sort of macho ritual

This may have been a valid criticism five years ago, but it's pretty dated. There are still plenty of stupid beers, but like I said, it's blown up well beyond silly IPAs.

I'd agree. I even hesitated to bring up IPAs for fear of the response. To be fair, there are some crappy UK beers too, they're just not watered down.

Re: California wine, I think Brits only see what they see, meaning they only get to see stuff with European distribution arms.

I dare any Brit to take a winery tour in the Central Coast and not come away impressed. Sonoma even too. You can still get the good local stuff.

[Hugh]

Here Copey, I think you dropped these:

I did make a couple of serious points: your wines are over priced and your craft beers are often hopelessly over hopped.

I should really try a few more but I don't like overly hoppy beer and most US craft beers I've tried go down the hipster brewing route.

I hate Brew Dog for the same reason - all their beers are either bitterly hoppy or hugely strong or both, it is just stupidly macho brewing for men with hipster beards, plaid shirts and red trousers.

Fuck'em

Some Brew Dog beers are heavily hopped but if you think they are all like that then you haven't tried very many.

[copehead]

Here Copey, I think you dropped these:

I did make a couple of serious points: your wines are over priced and your craft beers are often hopelessly over hopped.

I should really try a few more but I don't like overly hoppy beer and most US craft beers I've tried go down the hipster brewing route.

I hate Brew Dog for the same reason - all their beers are either bitterly hoppy or hugely strong or both, it is just stupidly macho brewing for men with hipster beards, plaid shirts and red trousers.

Fuck'em

Some Brew Dog beers are heavily hopped but if you think they are all like that then you haven't tried very many.

You are correct

The ones I tried - Punk IPA and Hardcore IPA - were so rank that to progress further would have been an act of supreme folly

The Mrs wouldn't let me into their tiled bar in Cowgate and for that I am profoundly grateful

[copehead]

I was tempted by these US microbreweries but they seem to compete to turn out the most viciously over hopped beers that are too bitter to make any pretense at enjoying, Brew Dog in the UK do the same.

Fucking stupid idea.

Give me a nice malty best bitter any day of the week, or a roasted Mild.

Overhopped IPAs as some sort of macho ritual

This may have been a valid criticism five years ago, but it's pretty dated. There are still plenty of stupid beers, but like I said, it's blown up well beyond silly IPAs.

I'd agree. I even hesitated to bring up IPAs for fear of the response. To be fair, there are some crappy UK beers too, they're just not watered down.

Re: California wine, I think Brits only see what they see, meaning they only get to see stuff with European distribution arms.

I dare any Brit to take a winery tour in the Central Coast and not come away impressed. Sonoma even too. You can still get the good local stuff.

California produces some of the best wines on Earth, but also a high percentage of the most overpriced ones as well.

It is all down to the huge domestic market and the lack of competition

[toomanyhatz]

California produces some of the best wines on Earth, but also a high percentage of the most overpriced ones as well.

It is all down to the huge domestic market and the lack of competition

Some would argue that Washington and Oregon are holding their own with their southern neighbors these days.

I would probably not be among those people, but they do exist.

[bobzilla77]

Some would argue that Washington and Oregon are holding their own with their southern neighbors these days.

They don't have the variety of Central Coast CA but I've had some very nice pinot noir from Oregon.

[BARON CORNY DOG]

This is, in some respects, like the cheese issue. Contrary to popular belief, Americans make plenty of good cheese. BUT, it's not a basic part of everyday life for the average person here. So yes, in many urban areas you can find good domestic (and imported) cheese. But it's a luxury, and it's the sort of thing you've got to go to a special place to buy. Beer is a little more commonplace, and more people probably buy good beer than good cheese, but someone coming here for a week in a random city, unless they were specifically seeking it out, could miss it altogether. Especially if they aren't in a specifically beer crazy place. Whereas in England, in my experience, you can show up at any old pub and have a good chance of them pouring something good. Obviously, not every place is going to fill the bill, but it's much more a part of every day life, and the average Joe is (probably) more discerning and demanding.

[Matt Wilson]

Although there are some fine Californian wines the winery as a whole is massively overrated by Americans; you make some truly appalling wine there which sells for vast amounts of money because Americans are impressed by highly alcoholic, jammy reds for some reason. They often taste more like fruit gums than proper wines - Zinfandels are the worst offenders here. Your Californian Cabs are a little bit more reliable but not fit to lick the boots of a decent Bordeaux, Merlots likewise.

French red wines, and even the better Australian, South African and Chilean ones, are usually far more complex than just legs and fruit.

In the UK you have to spend over $30 to get a Californian wine which starts to keep up with similarly priced wines from elsewhere.

The American wine industry is complacent because you will seemingly pay vast sums for inferior home grown wine.

And on behalf of the rest of the world I would like to thank you for making sure that most of that muck doesn't leave your own country, truly.

The UK has a very small but generally very good wine industry specialising in Champagne style wines from the chalk lands of the South which often win awards over champagnes, but as they are generally Chardonnay - Blancs de Blancs Champagnes they are very much not my cup of tea.

Gin and Tonic isn't a cocktail it is a long drink, cocktails do not contain mixers.

Prohibition USA was a fertile breeding ground for cocktails but many are much older, check out the cocktail list at the Hawksmoor Restaurant in London for lists of these older Cobblers and Dog's Noses.

The idea that American alcohol is worthy of mention in the same breath as British booze is, of course, not worth considering, it is ludicrous.

I was tempted by these US microbreweries but they seem to compete to turn out the most viciously over hopped beers that are too bitter to make any pretense at enjoying, Brew Dog in the UK do the same.

Fucking stupid idea.

Give me a nice malty best bitter any day of the week, or a roasted Mild.

Overhopped IPAs as some sort of macho ritual

You can keep them with your jammy wines

The only decent alcohol to come out of the US is Bourbon which is a poor man's Malt Whisky when it comes to complexity but makes for a nice change sometimes.

UK! UK! UK!

Where's Clive Gash and Rayge now, hmmm?

[bobzilla77]

I do enjoy a nice jammy red but most of the ones I like are from Spain!

[Fonz]

This is, in some respects, like the cheese issue. Contrary to popular belief, Americans make plenty of good cheese. BUT, it's not a basic part of everyday life for the average person here. So yes, in many urban areas you can find good domestic (and imported) cheese. But it's a luxury, and it's the sort of thing you've got to go to a special place to buy. Beer is a little more commonplace, and more people probably buy good beer than good cheese, but someone coming here for a week in a random city, unless they were specifically seeking it out, could miss it altogether. Especially if they aren't in a specifically beer crazy place. Whereas in England, in my experience, you can show up at any old pub and have a good chance of them pouring something good. Obviously, not every place is going to fill the bill, but it's much more a part of every day life, and the average Joe is (probably) more discerning and demanding.

I take your points here. When I'm in the US it's usually with American residents who know where to get the good stuff, or I will have researched a decent pub before going.
I still say that the US beers are worth making the effort to hunt down. Ninkasi's 'Total Domination' bears this out. Not one for Copehead. This is a hoppy monster, but the best beer I've ever had.

[Velvis]

The state of beer in the US is very good. Although the big, popular brands are lousy, a visit to a great brew pub yields hundreds of tasty options. It's a beer renaissance.

[The Red Heifer]

I am a cold beer man. I remember when I went to England last I had Nick in a fit after I happened to mention on Facebook that I had my Newcastle Brown Ale in an ice bucket. Yeah room temp I get it, but room temp that day was 30 degrees plus

I prefer English beer but that could be due to the sheer lack of US boutique brews available in Oz. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale though is probably my favourite beer.

[Phil T]

I used to enjoy a good quality IPA, but this was over 30 years ago, before they became hip 'n' trendy.

At the time they were hard to buy, so I took to home brewing IPA from kits.

Boots had a good one at the time and I made a fair few of those.

In the last twenty years or so though, I've barely touched a drop of IPA. In fact, I stopped home brewing altogether after a couple of beverage/ child accessory related accidents.

[copehead]

I am a cold beer man. I remember when I went to England last I had Nick in a fit after I happened to mention on Facebook that I had my Newcastle Brown Ale in an ice bucket. Yeah room temp I get it, but room temp that day was 30 degrees plus

I prefer English beer but that could be due to the sheer lack of US boutique brews available in Oz. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale though is probably my favourite beer.

Cellar temperature not room temperature

I had an Australian Stout the other day that was very moreish, a freebie from my local wine merchant who has started stocking Coopers.

By and large I found their beers underwhelming when I was in Oz but the best of the bunch easily available, too fizzy for ale for a start, but the stout was excellent although at 6.2%, heavy and chocolatey you wouldn't want to drink too many

[sloopjohnc]

This is, in some respects, like the cheese issue. Contrary to popular belief, Americans make plenty of good cheese. BUT, it's not a basic part of everyday life for the average person here. So yes, in many urban areas you can find good domestic (and imported) cheese. But it's a luxury, and it's the sort of thing you've got to go to a special place to buy. Beer is a little more commonplace, and more people probably buy good beer than good cheese, but someone coming here for a week in a random city, unless they were specifically seeking it out, could miss it altogether. Especially if they aren't in a specifically beer crazy place. Whereas in England, in my experience, you can show up at any old pub and have a good chance of them pouring something good. Obviously, not every place is going to fill the bill, but it's much more a part of every day life, and the average Joe is (probably) more discerning and demanding.

Totally agree with this.

[sloopjohnc]

I've drank more beer this year than in the last few years combined. There's so many great craft breweries here now that one can't possibly keep up with them. Even obtaining some of these beers is difficult.

http://www.beeradvocate.com/lists/top/

Not surprising, but interesting to see Pliny the Elder and Younger so high on the list.

When Russian River Brewing Company releases them, there are four hour lines at the brewery on the day of.

By the way, the Russian River is hour and a half drive north of San Francisco and traditional weekend and summer getaway spot for Bay Area folks.

[hookfinger]

Cellar temperature not room temperature

Glad to see you point out the difference. It often goes over most people's head. Being a good american and not a beer snob, i tend to like mine colder. But when drinking some decent beers the slighter warmer temps allow more flavors to come through. The same reason you would not serve whisk(e)y on the rocks but simply with a dash of cool spring water.

[The Red Heifer]

I am a cold beer man. I remember when I went to England last I had Nick in a fit after I happened to mention on Facebook that I had my Newcastle Brown Ale in an ice bucket. Yeah room temp I get it, but room temp that day was 30 degrees plus

I prefer English beer but that could be due to the sheer lack of US boutique brews available in Oz. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale though is probably my favourite beer.

Cellar temperature not room temperature

I had an Australian Stout the other day that was very moreish, a freebie from my local wine merchant who has started stocking Coopers.

By and large I found their beers underwhelming when I was in Oz but the best of the bunch easily available, too fizzy for ale for a start, but the stout was excellent although at 6.2%, heavy and chocolatey you wouldn't want to drink too many

The Sparkling Ale and the Pale Ale are national treasures over here, not to mention dangerous in regards to the Sparkling

The Best Extra Stout is a wonderful cooking beer, and apparently tastes even better after a year in the bottle (Coopers bottles come with "Best After" dates after all).