Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks

.....

Groucho
14
82%
Noam
3
18%
 
Total votes: 17

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Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 17 Jan 2013, 10:46

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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman » 17 Jan 2013, 11:18

Noam. For continuous courage to go against received notions, and against the grain in general. For expertly dismantling political spin and lies. And for being, IIRC, one of the five most quoted sources on the whole planet, according to a recent investigation.

(This is not to say that I don't have lots of huggable feelings for dear ol' Groucho, mind.)
On the whole, I'd rather be in Wallenpaupack.

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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby Insouciant Western People » 17 Jan 2013, 11:42

I find Chomsky a hard character to warm to.

I agree with some of his ideas (especially with regard to the media) and he's obviously a remarkably influential theorist and academic, but his inability to pin the blame for anything on anyone other than the evil western capitalist hegemony gets severely on my wick. And his defence of the Serbs with reference to the conflict in the former Yugoslavia made me feel nauseous.
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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 17 Jan 2013, 11:51

Nick wrote:I find Chomsky a hard character to warm to.

I agree with some of his ideas (especially with regard to the media) and he's obviously a remarkably influential theorist and academic, but his inability to pin the blame for anything on anyone other than the evil western capitalist hegemony gets severely on my wick. And his defence of the Serbs with reference to the conflict in the former Yugoslavia made me feel nauseous.


Agreed. He's a dry, harsh man (altho' I'm sure his fans will point out examples of his humour) and I don't find his interviews interesting partly because of this. There's an arrogance there (same with Žižek, actually)

His theories on language are more my cuppa anyway.

He's the token intellectual for rockers, too - they're all lining up to sing his praises. That's off-putting.

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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby Thesiger » 17 Jan 2013, 12:29

Sea Of Tunes v2.0 wrote:And for being, IIRC, one of the five most quoted sources on the whole planet, according to a recent investigation.


WIKI - According to the Arts and Humanities Citation Index in 1992, Chomsky was cited as a source more often than any other living scholar from 1980 to 1992, and was the eighth most cited source overall. :shock:


versus


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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 17 Jan 2013, 12:32

Thesiger wrote:
From the moment I picked your book up until I laid it down, I was convulsed with laughter. Someday I intend reading it.


:lol:

Wonderful.

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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby Goat Boy » 17 Jan 2013, 12:45

Lord B wrote:
Nick wrote:I find Chomsky a hard character to warm to.

I agree with some of his ideas (especially with regard to the media) and he's obviously a remarkably influential theorist and academic, but his inability to pin the blame for anything on anyone other than the evil western capitalist hegemony gets severely on my wick. And his defence of the Serbs with reference to the conflict in the former Yugoslavia made me feel nauseous.


Agreed. He's a dry, harsh man (altho' I'm sure his fans will point out examples of his humour) and I don't find his interviews interesting partly because of this. There's an arrogance there (same with Žižek, actually)

His theories on language are more my cuppa anyway.

He's the token intellectual for rockers, too - they're all lining up to sing his praises. That's off-putting.


I don't find him arrogant at all and I'm wondering why you do. I do find him a boring speaker though and I certainly wouldn't pay to listen to him.

He's the token intellectual for rockers, too - they're all lining up to sing his praises. That's off-putting


Never heard one 'rocker' mention him ever and even if they did why that be offputting? Cos rockers are thick? I guess he is the most respected and well know left wing intellectual but there's a reason for that.
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I read the article, which was nonsense.

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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby Insouciant Western People » 17 Jan 2013, 13:00

Goat Boy wrote:
Lord B wrote:He's the token intellectual for rockers, too - they're all lining up to sing his praises. That's off-putting


Never heard one 'rocker' mention him ever and even if they did why that be offputting?


Thom Yorke mithers on about him a lot.
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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 17 Jan 2013, 13:02

So does Eddie Vedder.

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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby Goat Boy » 17 Jan 2013, 13:03

Nick wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:
Lord B wrote:He's the token intellectual for rockers, too - they're all lining up to sing his praises. That's off-putting


Never heard one 'rocker' mention him ever and even if they did why that be offputting?


Thom Yorke mithers on about him a lot.


I've heard Slash mention him a couple of times as well.
LeBaron wrote:
Jimbo wrote:I will read your link but it seems you only read my poor synopsis and not the article, otherwise you''d say more than just insult my cred


I read the article, which was nonsense.

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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby mission » 17 Jan 2013, 13:21

I am not really all that conversant with Chomsky's consent-manufacturing shenanigans, but I am aware that his credentials, if you will, as a public intellectual rest upon his theories in linguistics/language acquisition regarding deep structure. I read a throwaway line in some magazine article recently which seemed to suggest he had kind of abandoned/recanted on these theories.

Anyway, Groucho was the guiding light of my early twenties. He gets my vote for most things.
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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby Zong » 17 Jan 2013, 13:55

I think Nick has hit the naily thing on the head.

Although Chomsky has some value as a force for good his blaming of everything on the USA/West and even worse, his apologetics in the favour of Milosevic or his denial of the extent of Stalinist crimes (I believe he's one who makes excuses for the collectivisation/famine disaster) mark him as one of the reasons the left drives me utterly mental.....even though I'm kind of on their side. This kneejerk bias is so widespread amongst lefties I know and I never consider it forgivable, never, even if they are close to my politics. I wish only reality was dealt in.

Groucho on the other hand is one of my favourite quotesmiths ever- I don't usually go for his generation of wits either, so extra points.

Is it true he once instructed Freddie Mercury to title the next Queen album "The Greates Hits of the Rolling Stones" when Queen borrowed "A Day at The Races" and "A Night at the Opera" as album titles?
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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby sloopjohnc » 17 Jan 2013, 14:27

Thesiger wrote:
Sea Of Tunes v2.0 wrote:And for being, IIRC, one of the five most quoted sources on the whole planet, according to a recent investigation.


WIKI - According to the Arts and Humanities Citation Index in 1992, Chomsky was cited as a source more often than any other living scholar from 1980 to 1992, and was the eighth most cited source overall. :shock:


versus


I never forget a face, but in your case I'll be glad to make an exception.

I have had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it.

Behind every successful man is a woman, behind her is his wife.

From the moment I picked your book up until I laid it down, I was convulsed with laughter. Someday I intend reading it.

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.


You forgot, and I paraphrase, I'd never join any club that asked me to be a member.

I agree with Nick on Chomsky. Groucho in a landslide. In his own way, Groucho was as revolutionary with his comedy, along with his brothers, every bit as much as Chomsky is with his theories.

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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby LeBaron » 17 Jan 2013, 14:31

Groucho. For continuous courage to go against received notions, and against the grain in general. For expertly dismantling political spin and lies. And for being, IIRC, one of the five most quoted sources on the whole planet, according to a recent investigation.

(This is not to say that I don't have lots of huggable feelings for dear ol' Noam, mind.)
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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman » 17 Jan 2013, 14:31

Sea Of Tunes v2.0 wrote:Noam. For continuous courage to go against received notions, and against the grain in general. For expertly dismantling political spin and lies. And for being, IIRC, one of the five most quoted sources on the whole planet, according to a recent investigation.

(This is not to say that I don't have lots of huggable feelings for dear ol' Groucho, mind.)


I feel a need to amend my post. I did not know the outrageous points of view of Chomsky's that are outlined above; I am more conversant with portions of his scientific work, and I did read some debates he did with politicians and opinion leaders - but these were more of a general nature and not about taking sides with obvious dicators and warmongers.

So: one never ceases to learn.
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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman » 17 Jan 2013, 14:31

Chili Baron wrote:Groucho. For continuous courage to go against received notions, and against the grain in general. For expertly dismantling political spin and lies. And for being, IIRC, one of the five most quoted sources on the whole planet, according to a recent investigation.

(This is not to say that I don't have lots of huggable feelings for dear ol' Noam, mind.)


:D
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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 17 Jan 2013, 14:49

The fact that Groucho is winning probably has more to do with the fact that BCBers prefer to have fun than to engage in political debate.

That's the way I like to see it, anyway.

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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby Deebank » 17 Jan 2013, 14:50

Lord B wrote:The fact that Groucho is winning probably has more to do with the fact that BCBers prefer to have fun than to engage in political debate.

That's the way I like to see it, anyway.


It's always black and white with you!
The two aren't mutually exclusive :)
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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby LeBaron » 17 Jan 2013, 14:53

Lord B wrote:The fact that Groucho is winning probably has more to do with the fact that BCBers prefer to have fun than to engage in political debate.


:lol:
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Re: Groucho Marx vs Noam Chomsky

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 17 Jan 2013, 15:01

Deebank wrote:
Lord B wrote:The fact that Groucho is winning probably has more to do with the fact that BCBers prefer to have fun than to engage in political debate.

That's the way I like to see it, anyway.


It's always black and white with you!
The two aren't mutually exclusive :)


No, I know, but...



isn't there that thing about intellectuals thinking about sex more often than thick people do? something like that, anyway.