Your choice of language

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks

What sort of language do you prefer

I will happily use foreign language phrases to pepper my everyday language.
8
29%
Flowery
5
18%
Efficient
10
36%
Don't really care
1
4%
I very rarely write anything of consequence to bother
3
11%
TXT SPK
1
4%
 
Total votes: 28

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sloopjohnc
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Re: Your choice of language

Postby sloopjohnc » 06 Feb 2018, 00:30

Jimbo wrote:I think it was Elmore Leonard who said to simply write "he said" anytime a character says something and the situation should define how he said it. Goosebumps author R.L. Stine must have never heard Elmore Leonard's advice. I have a bunch of used Goosebumps books leftover from when i had read them to my kid nearly 30 years ago and lately I have been useing them to teach English. Despite the young teen theme level they're actually engaging and fun stories. A problem for my students are the many ways Stine writes, "he said." My students have to deal with how he yelled, sputtered, howled, screamed, moaned, shouted, whispered, croaked, squeaked, squealed, grumbled, mumbled, grunted, and many more other words which mean "said."


I can see both sides of that. I agree with "He said," or "He responded," as most efficient, but for example, if a guy has another guy around the neck, saying something like, "He gasped," can be pretty effective. But that's the art of the writer - deciding when less is more and when more is more.
OCT wrote:Roger Waters is a cunt and his music is fucking shit.

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Jimbo
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Re: Your choice of language

Postby Jimbo » 06 Feb 2018, 01:04

I will never take another drink if I get out of here alive he thought.

Do you use quote marks for statements a character thinks?
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sloopjohnc
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Re: Your choice of language

Postby sloopjohnc » 06 Feb 2018, 14:11

Jimbo wrote:I will never take another drink if I get out of here alive he thought.

Do you use quote marks for statements a character thinks?


Yes.
OCT wrote:Roger Waters is a cunt and his music is fucking shit.

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The Great Defector
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Re: Your choice of language

Postby The Great Defector » 06 Feb 2018, 14:17

I hate people that use big words unnaturally. By that I mean it takes them twice as along to say a sentence because they are trying to show off thinking of the most fancy word to say. If it comes naturally, like say Stephan fry for example, I don't mind. However I watch a sports show called pardon the interruption and there's a stand in guy that goes out of his way to think up big fancy words needlessly, and spends about 5 seconds trying to think of it. It's annoying. Russell brand is another culprit too.

Jokes of the highest quality only about my spelling and grammar.
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Goat Boy
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Re: Your choice of language

Postby Goat Boy » 06 Feb 2018, 14:33

I write words I would never use in real life. To me it's two different approaches and two very different environments. There is something, I dunno, artificial and formal about using fancy words but sometimes I feel they are necessary to try and effectively communicate what you are saying. Of course fancy is relative. I'm not like Will Self or nuffink and of course to people like Self this sorta thing is more natural and therefore not artifical. One mans fancy is another mans run of the mill. Of course most people don't have his grasp of language so when I read an article of his part of me thinks "is it necessary?" but then he has a love of language and he wants to express this. That's cool.

It's nice to occasionally drop in a fancy word in conversation. It's creative and if it's right then there's a satisfaction there. It can be a way of implying equality because you assuming the other person is aware of its meaning too so it's part of a bonding ritual. Of course it can be used to imply superiority and that's a dick move. Just using it does not necessarily mean that's the intention though. People bring their own baggage and insecurities with them.

I think both in person and on the page it's best to go for simpler, more direct language and there's a skill in using it to express your point of view with the amount of intensity and clarity you want. It's sorta like using G, C, A and D to create a good song. It's tempting to throw in some fancy chords but there''s real skill in using just the basic chords and yet managing to pull it off. I think that's what I try and do mostly.

I'm quite wary of sounding too "poncey" so I'll sometimes undercut that by adding "at the risk of sounding like a tosser" or summat. There's a class element in there I guess. Don't do nowt fancy lad, keep it simple.
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The Great Defector
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Re: Your choice of language

Postby The Great Defector » 06 Feb 2018, 14:50

Goat Boy wrote:
I'm quite wary of sounding too "poncey" so I'll sometimes undercut that by adding "at the risk of sounding like a tosser" or summat.

You should just post that regardless.
Drama Queenie wrote:You are a chauvinist of the quaintest kind. About as threatening as Jack Duckworth, you are a harmless relic of that cherished era when things were 'different'. Now get back to drawing a moustache on that page three model

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Re: Your choice of language

Postby Goat Boy » 06 Feb 2018, 15:00

:lol:

Bastard
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Re: Your choice of language

Postby Rayge » 06 Feb 2018, 15:14

Jimbo wrote:I will never take another drink if I get out of here alive he thought.

Do you use quote marks for statements a character thinks?


you certainly separate the thought from who is thinking it with a comma
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Re: Your choice of language

Postby Rayge » 06 Feb 2018, 15:17

Deebank wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:When I was staying with Django last summer, he would occasionally say, "Hey, buddy."

Buddy?

I told him he could call me "buddy" when I started using "mate," which would be never.


Buddy and Bud are common in South Wales and the West Country.


Yep
Last edited by Rayge on 06 Feb 2018, 15:18, edited 1 time in total.
KAT/COYS

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When the ball sleeps it dreams it is a Frisbee

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will

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Re: Your choice of language

Postby sloopjohnc » 06 Feb 2018, 15:17

What do people think about using text speak in everyday conversation? Should text speak be limited to phones - I do know people use LOL and IMHO in conversation. They tend to be younger, like my son's age, but they use it nowadays.
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Re: Your choice of language

Postby The Great Defector » 06 Feb 2018, 15:24

sloopjohnc wrote:What do people think about using text speak in everyday conversation? Should text speak be limited to phones - I do know people use LOL and IMHO in conversation. They tend to be younger, like my son's age, but they use it nowadays.


You mean actually say the letters IMHO and LOL?
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Re: Your choice of language

Postby sloopjohnc » 06 Feb 2018, 15:32

The Great Defector wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:What do people think about using text speak in everyday conversation? Should text speak be limited to phones - I do know people use LOL and IMHO in conversation. They tend to be younger, like my son's age, but they use it nowadays.


You mean actually say the letters IMHO and LOL?


Yes.
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Re: Your choice of language

Postby Rayge » 06 Feb 2018, 15:36

OCT wrote:But you’re at least receptive to the idea that even with language, there’s a beauty in simplicity?


Yes of course, but there is beauty in everything, if you look at it right – [pretentious]that's pretty much my entire aesthetic worldview [/pretentious].

As far as speech and writing go, I often choose words, often whole sentences, for their musicality and allusiveness, rather their precision and simplicity, largely because what I am attempting to articulate usually goes beyond transmitting information (or 'moving the plot along'), and because that's the sort of stuff I enjoy hearing and indeed reading. I like Elmore Leonard and enjoyed some Hemingway, to name two mentioned here already, but both of them are essentially story-tellers, and little else. Which is fine. But on the whole I get more out of Moby Dick, or Ulysses, or almost anything by Flann O'Brien, at least in part because of the allusive richness of the language.
Of course, I didn't apply this to the non-fiction I wrote for work (although I would often lob in an apposite phrase - my specialty – extended metaphor, or other trope, which the editors would appreciate, and then {usually} edit out for reasons of brevity), or in any situation where communicating information was paramount, but if I'm with pals, or playing on the interwebz, I just let the polysyllables out to roam and graze in the fertile pastures of my imagination.
And people are generally thankful, as they should be ;)
KAT/COYS

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When the ball sleeps it dreams it is a Frisbee

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will

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Re: Your choice of language

Postby Darkness_Fish » 06 Feb 2018, 15:58

I try to disseminate my promulgations efficiently.
Saving my holier-than-thou nonsense for a more deserving cause since '82

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The Great Defector
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Re: Your choice of language

Postby The Great Defector » 06 Feb 2018, 15:59

sloopjohnc wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:What do people think about using text speak in everyday conversation? Should text speak be limited to phones - I do know people use LOL and IMHO in conversation. They tend to be younger, like my son's age, but they use it nowadays.


You mean actually say the letters IMHO and LOL?


Yes.


Break all communication with them and tell them you have left the country so you don't have to talk to them anymore.
Drama Queenie wrote:You are a chauvinist of the quaintest kind. About as threatening as Jack Duckworth, you are a harmless relic of that cherished era when things were 'different'. Now get back to drawing a moustache on that page three model

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Re: Your choice of language

Postby Jimbo » 06 Feb 2018, 16:08

Rayge wrote:
OCT wrote: I like Elmore Leonard and enjoyed some Hemingway, to name two mentioned here already, but both of them are essentially story-tellers, and little else.


If you like more florid verbiage with your manly tales then may I recommend James Lee Burke who packs a wallop of metaphors, similes and concise vivid descriptions of people, places and things, as well as telling the most harrowing and exciting crime stories I've ever read.
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Re: Your choice of language

Postby Rayge » 06 Feb 2018, 16:30

Jimbo wrote:
Rayge wrote:
OCT wrote: I like Elmore Leonard and enjoyed some Hemingway, to name two mentioned here already, but both of them are essentially story-tellers, and little else.


If you like more florid verbiage with your manly tales then may I recommend James Lee Burke who packs a wallop of metaphors, similes and concise vivid descriptions of people, places and things, as well as telling the most harrowing and exciting crime stories I've ever read.


I'm aware of him; my late wife was a fan of the Reacher books, and shared a publisher with him, so got plenty of his books, but I didn't really get on with them, and now, of course, have Stopped Reading New Novels forever. Back when I did read a lot, I perhaps would have got into them, although generally Leonard and, for some odd reason, Robert B Parker, were the only crime/thriller type stuff I ever read (and Chandler of course, but he's all style and there are only six of them).

and I honestly prefer my my phrase about 'musicality and allusiveness' to 'florid verbiage', even if we were talking about the same thing :D
And the main meaning of 'Verbiage' has always kinda implied redundancy, as it is about 'excessively long' wordage, so 'florid' - 'excessively intricate or elaborate' (I trust you were not using it in its primary meaning of 'red-faced') - is in itself redundant. ;)
KAT/COYS

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When the ball sleeps it dreams it is a Frisbee

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will

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nev harp
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Re: Your choice of language

Postby nev harp » 06 Feb 2018, 16:38

Don’t do drugs kids.
Hip Someone who knows the score. Someone who understands jive talk Someone who is with it The expression is not subject to definition because, if you don't dig what it means, no one can ever tell you.

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nev harp
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Re: Your choice of language

Postby nev harp » 06 Feb 2018, 16:38

Sorry, I meant don’t do kids’ drugs.
Hip Someone who knows the score. Someone who understands jive talk Someone who is with it The expression is not subject to definition because, if you don't dig what it means, no one can ever tell you.

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Jimbo
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Re: Your choice of language

Postby Jimbo » 06 Feb 2018, 16:44

Rayge wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
Rayge wrote:


If you like more florid verbiage with your manly tales then may I recommend James Lee Burke who packs a wallop of metaphors, similes and concise vivid descriptions of people, places and things, as well as telling the most harrowing and exciting crime stories I've ever read.


I'm aware of him; my late wife was a fan of the Reacher books, and shared a publisher with him, so got plenty of his books, but I didn't really get on with them, and now, of course, have Stopped Reading New Novels forever. Back when I did read a lot, I perhaps would have got into them, although generally Leonard and, for some odd reason, Robert B Parker, were the only crime/thriller type stuff I ever read (and Chandler of course, but he's all style and there are only six of them).

and I honestly prefer my my phrase about 'musicality and allusiveness' to 'florid verbiage', even if we were talking about the same thing :D
And the main meaning of 'Verbiage' has always kinda implied redundancy, as it is about 'excessively long' wordage, so 'florid' - 'excessively intricate or elaborate' (I trust you were not using it in its primary meaning of 'red-faced') - is in itself redundant. ;)


No, not Reacher. That is another writer. Burke's guy is Dave Robecheaux and Hackbury Holland and other Holland kin. Really good writing!

And I checked and you are right; verbiage is the wrong word. Florid writing or wording would have been what I meant.

I read every Elmore Leonard book he wrote except his westerns. I tried the westerns but I couldn't get into them. Maybe the desert settings and his writing were too sparse. Burke, however, makes the Texas desert come alive!
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