President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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sloopjohnc
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 18 Jul 2018, 18:37

The Modernist wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:It will be fish & chip paper tomorrow, trust me.


Probably. He does and says so many ridiculous, dangerous and probably illegal things on an almost daily basis that in the end nothing stands out.


In May, the Washington Post reported that the Fact Checker (I don't know if that's separate site or a division of WaPO) showed that Trump has lied, on average, 6.5 times a day since he took the oath of officce. Sometimes he probably lies less on some days and more on others, but that's probably cuz he misplaced his phone and can't tweet for a couple hours.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Geezee » 18 Jul 2018, 21:28

pig bodine wrote:
Geezee wrote:It seems ridiculous to say, but he seems to me to have lost a lot of credibility.


I wish this was the case, but his approval rating hasn’t changed. It is a religious cult, there is nothing he could do to lose his base. There could be fims of him molesting children and they’d say it was faked. They would die for him, no differently than Jim Jones or the castrated Reeboks guy.


There’s been an approval rating since yesterday? I wouldn’t expect an immediate impact anyway. But it’s a start. It’s at least the first chip that I’ve ever seen in his infallibility - which may just be a blip, and may indeed be forgotten - but I’ve always dismissed all the other false dawns against him (all the “this time he’s gone too fars”), and this one somehow, for some reason, looks different to me. These kinds of images are hard to get rid of - he can spout as many lies and mistakes and insults and neo-nazism that he wants and it will never impact - but something as basic as issuing a begrudging admittance that he made a mistake, that to me seemed significant. Have you ever seen a power-hungry, dictator-worshipping narcissist do that before? I haven’t.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby The Prof » 18 Jul 2018, 23:48

andymacandy wrote:
The Prof wrote:Playing devil's advocate a bit, but he's just had a meeting with Putin - who is stood about 2 foot away and the press are asking if Putin is a crook.
It seemed obvious he was bound to say No then go on about Hilary's emails then backpedal once he got on American soil again.

But he looked so un-statesmanlike while doing it. For a man that seems to thrive on his own confidence, he looked a bit out of his depth, and I havn't seen that before.

He's not really a Statesman. He's a bully and a liar but I don't think he's daft enough to say that the Russian government had interfered in American democracy whilst stood next to the Russian President. Not when they'd just had a meeting to try and build bridges.
By asking those questions, it was a bit of a stitch up by the press. But...well... fuck him.. he deserves it.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby LeBaron » 18 Jul 2018, 23:57

As I said earlier, any variety of bullshit equivocations would have worked just fine.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 18 Jul 2018, 23:58

my dog ate my homework is a better excuse.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby bobzilla77 » 19 Jul 2018, 00:28

The Prof wrote:
andymacandy wrote:
The Prof wrote:Playing devil's advocate a bit, but he's just had a meeting with Putin - who is stood about 2 foot away and the press are asking if Putin is a crook.
It seemed obvious he was bound to say No then go on about Hilary's emails then backpedal once he got on American soil again.

But he looked so un-statesmanlike while doing it. For a man that seems to thrive on his own confidence, he looked a bit out of his depth, and I havn't seen that before.

He's not really a Statesman. He's a bully and a liar but I don't think he's daft enough to say that the Russian government had interfered in American democracy whilst stood next to the Russian President. Not when they'd just had a meeting to try and build bridges.
By asking those questions, it was a bit of a stitch up by the press. But...well... fuck him.. he deserves it.


The thing I'm gettting from the reaction, what bugs people on that side is that he acted visibly and unmistakably like a little puss in front of the town bully.
Jimbo wrote:I guess I am over Graham Nash's politics. Hopelessly naive by the standards I've molded for myself these days.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 19 Jul 2018, 01:04

bobzilla77 wrote:The thing I'm gettting from the reaction, what bugs people on that side is that he acted visibly and unmistakably like a little puss in front of the town bully.

For someone who regularly trades in "America First" rhetoric, he plainly put America last at that appearance - behind a) himself, and b) Putin - and then acted like a crybaby when called out on it. Even his so-called "walkback" blamed everyone else but himself ("It should have been clear," or whatever he said).

Aside from the disgraceful content of his speech, he certainly didn't manage to project strength, and I would think even his base would take note of his craven submissiveness to his "competitor."
Jimbo wrote:Look, all I know is pretty much what I get from Robert Parry over at Consortium News.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 19 Jul 2018, 04:08

Maybe, somehow, this will put an end to the Russia! hysteria and the congress can get back to doing what they should have been doing: impeaching Trump.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 19 Jul 2018, 05:06

Impeach the great peacemaker?!!!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 19 Jul 2018, 05:08

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Impeach the great peacemaker?!!!


Yeah … well, the guy is a doofus.

Davey, Pence or Trump?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 19 Jul 2018, 05:11

Jimbo wrote:Maybe, somehow, this will put an end to the Russia! hysteria and the congress can get back to doing what they should have been doing: impeaching Trump.

Here you go.

Standards for Impeachment: Trump’s Defense of Putin in the Face of Russia’s Electoral Attacks

https://www.lawfareblog.com/standards-i ... al-attacks
Jimbo wrote:Look, all I know is pretty much what I get from Robert Parry over at Consortium News.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 19 Jul 2018, 05:33

Snarfyguy wrote:
Jimbo wrote:Maybe, somehow, this will put an end to the Russia! hysteria and the congress can get back to doing what they should have been doing: impeaching Trump.

Here you go.

Standards for Impeachment: Trump’s Defense of Putin in the Face of Russia’s Electoral Attacks

https://www.lawfareblog.com/standards-i ... al-attacks


Well, I still don't buy the Russia hacking the election story and I don't trust Mueller, especially after seeing him testify/lie a la Colin Powell and the rest of the "W" cabal about Sadam Hussein's non-existant WMDs, so I'd reject the premise of impeaching Trump for what he did vis a vis Putin. If, however, he is diagnosed locos cuckoo triggered by the humiliation he is suffering in the wake of his Russia meeting then he could be impeached for being unable to do his job … at last! You know, if Trump had said on his return, "You critics can kiss my ass!" he'd be unstoppable.

edit. Unaddressed by the Lawfare article is that if Trump is tried in Congress based upon the Russia! story Mueller would be left with the same problem he is dealing with now, how to make the case without exposing the secret ways, means and methods used by intelligence to get the goods on Russia. That is why he indicted 12 Russian guys who will probably never show and no Americans. It's a pantomime.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 19 Jul 2018, 06:01

Jimbo wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Impeach the great peacemaker?!!!


Yeah … well, the guy is a doofus.

Davey, Pence or Trump?


Easily Pence. He’s a flavor of awful everybody understands. He’d be easily defeated in 2020 and we could move on.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 19 Jul 2018, 07:46

Catlain speaks my language but far, far more fluently.

Russiagate Is Like 9/11, Except It’s Made Of Pure Narrative

... This is what I’m talking about when I say that whoever controls the narrative controls the world. Whoever controls the stories that westerners are telling each other has the power to advance concrete agendas which reshape global geopolitics without any actual thing even happening. Simply by getting a few hand-picked intelligence agents to say something happened in a relatively confident way, you can get the entire media and political body advancing that narrative as unquestionable fact, and from there advance sanctions, new military operations, a far more aggressive Nuclear Posture Review, the casting out of diplomats, the arming of Ukraine, and ultimately shove Russia further and further off the world stage.


https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/russ ... 96fa38ee48
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 19 Jul 2018, 16:03

Nah Jimbo. This is a bad take.

Your new crush makes a decent-enough point on the power of narrative. It appears to be her one insight - and she apparently rides it pretty hard. Here she is a few months ago...same shtick:

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/whoe ... 2e1134e857

Again, it’s a decent-enough rap - but both she and you ignore the obvious...that narrative is really all that she, or any of the other folks you listen to have to offer. We’re supposed to trust Scott Ritter’s takes because he was a weapons inspector, or Robert Parry’s because he won a Pulitzer. At some point we end up having to accept somebody’s narrative, because we don’t have the time, ability or expertise to properly analyze some things on our own.

But Johnstone also misses the larger issue when it comes to the liberal reaction to the last few days. It isn’t about Russia. The fact that she (and you) think it is is a tell on where her/your agenda lies.

Nobody I’ve ever talked to sees Russia’s actions as substantively different than a bear mauling. You don’t blame a bear for doing what bears do. Most of us instinctively get that there is a two-way street when it comes to Americans and Russians playing Spy vs. Spy. Nobody is talking about invading Russia or deposing Putin or starting WWIII. That shit is in your mind.

Russiagate is about a President who refuses to even find out whether a threat exists. It’s about a President who accepted personal financing from a country for years, and is now favoring that country via our foreign policy - EVEN to the detriment of our NATO alliances.

The issue isn’t whether the threat from Russia is a proven fact. It is that our President refuses to even take the possibility seriously. Then kicks our allies in the shin. Then insists on a meeting with no staff. Then publicly insists that he trusts the word of a foreign leader over his own intelligence community (which, even if he were right in feeling that way, should never be said publicly for a million reasons I hope I don’t have to spoon feed you).

People are justified in asking exactly what Trump’s motivations are. They clearly aren’t about peace or denuclearization.

The best case scenario is that he’s just a moron who likes Putin more than he likes the FBI. But given that he’s President...that’s a problem.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby The Prof » 19 Jul 2018, 16:33

Does Trump have to get the approval of the Republican Party before he can run in 2020? or is it just taken as read that the serving President doesn't have to?

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby LeBaron » 19 Jul 2018, 16:41

The Prof wrote:Does Trump have to get the approval of the Republican Party before he can run in 2020? or is it just taken as read that the serving President doesn't have to?


He would have to run as a nominee and get the nomination. The Party could try to pull some dirty tricks (like what Jimbo alleges the Democrats did to Bernie). However, his support is so strong among Republican voters that the Republican Party would cease to exist if it tried to keep him off of the ballot as a Republican.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby LeBaron » 19 Jul 2018, 16:41

Also, thank you Davey!
Quaco wrote:Are you fucking high?

take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Diamond Dog » 19 Jul 2018, 16:42

The Prof wrote:Does Trump have to get the approval of the Republican Party before he can run in 2020? or is it just taken as read that the serving President doesn't have to?


They'll back him if he wants another term.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby LeBaron » 19 Jul 2018, 16:59

He’s already raising money, obviously

https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/15/politics ... index.html
Quaco wrote:Are you fucking high?

take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.