Former President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby BARON CORNY DOG » 15 Jul 2018, 19:17

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:What neither Jimbo nor the folks he listens to can do at this point, is construct a counter-narrative around the information we now know. They’ve been pushed into the corner of insisting that absolutely none of it has happened at all. That it is all one grand conspiracy in which the entire intelligence community has unified to try and pull the wool over our eyes for no discernible motive beyond a weak and incoherent suspicion that it must benefit war profiteers somehow.


I had the displeasure of seeing a bit of Fox and Friends this morning. Sean Hannity and another Fox Stooge are in Helsinki (they better not catch any wacky Euro ideas and try to bring back something stupidly European such as vegan ice cream).* Anyway, in the wake of the new indictments, they’ve been forced to concede that Putin DID have something to do with all this, which means what? Any guesses? Wait for it ... Red Line Obama knew this was happening and didn’t do shit! It’s HIS FAULT and now only Trump would have two such high level summits in such short order and only he can tell Putin how the cow ate the cabbage!



* I rather suspect that “vegan ice cream” is more readily available in any number of blue American cities than most of the capitals of Olde Europe. But that’s Fox & Friends for you.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 15 Jul 2018, 19:53

Jimbo wrote:
Snarfyguy wrote: But your Medium writer's circular logic and demands of "proof" (which won't emerge outside of a court of law) are just a distraction.


But you seem so sure. Is there any doubt in your mind that Russia did all what the indictments, the NYT, WaPo and The Nation articles, the pundits, the Democrats, the intelligence agencies, the HRC fans, whomsoever is buying the official narrative say they did, that Russia hacked the election, stole files from the Dems, made a spy of Trump, not to mention engineered Brexit and meddled in any number of European elections, oh, and in the Mexican election.


(my emphasis)

First of all, the contents of my mind are not the topic of this discussion. All I want to know, really, is whether the dots in the fact pattern can be connected to any more high-ups in the administration.

Second, No one's going to WAR over this. The war economy doesn't need a war anyway.

Jimbo wrote:Even Rosenstein said any Russian interference did not affect the election.


Third, that's not what he said.

Fourth, we're not here to litigate things like how Jonathan Chait comported himself on some chat show. You can't read that piece and conclude that all that stuff is a series of (highly improbable) coincidences. For a conspiracy theorist, you seem remarkably incurious about where this seems to be leading.

[Trump's] own Justice Department is prepared to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, in public, using admissible evidence, that the president of the Russian Federation has been lying to Trump about Russian non-involvement in the 2016 election hacking.


This is the investigation that the GOP-led Congress has been trying to sweep under the carpet.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/russia-indi ... indictment
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 15 Jul 2018, 20:53

Snarfyguy wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
Snarfyguy wrote: But your Medium writer's circular logic and demands of "proof" (which won't emerge outside of a court of law) are just a distraction.


But you seem so sure. Is there any doubt in your mind that Russia did all what the indictments, the NYT, WaPo and The Nation articles, the pundits, the Democrats, the intelligence agencies, the HRC fans, whomsoever is buying the official narrative say they did, that Russia hacked the election, stole files from the Dems, made a spy of Trump, not to mention engineered Brexit and meddled in any number of European elections, oh, and in the Mexican election.


(my emphasis)

First of all, the contents of my mind are not the topic of this discussion. All I want to know, really, is whether the dots in the fact pattern can be connected to any more high-ups in the administration.

Second, No one's going to WAR over this. The war economy doesn't need a war anyway.

Jimbo wrote:Even Rosenstein said any Russian interference did not affect the election.


Third, that's not what he said.

Fourth, we're not here to litigate things like how Jonathan Chait comported himself on some chat show. You can't read that piece and conclude that all that stuff is a series of (highly improbable) coincidences. For a conspiracy theorist, you seem remarkably incurious about where this seems to be leading.


My mistake. Rosenstein said no Americans (yet named) were involved so there goes "collusion." But according to Poitifact

Based on the evidence, it seems highly unlikely that actions by the Russian government contributed in any decisive way to Trump’s win over Clinton.


I am not incurious about where this is heading I am fearful. What is the point of this one note ludicrous circus if not to provoke Russia? If Chait is right .... What? Okay, we poked you, what are you going about it? Russia will deny any of this especially when the bits of evidence, many of Chait's clues can be dismissed or diminished. Thinking back, Chait himself said parts of his conspiracy theory had been individually debunked but since they're out there I'll put them together and cleverly create a picture of a Trump agent-Putin master relationship. Again, so what? Are you insulted that our Democracy, America's honor has been compromised or besmirched by a foreign government or are you angry that Hillary could have won if not for the Russians? The second part is now moot according to the Politifact quote. Or maybe you're really afraid Trump is a Russian agent. Or is he an Israeli agent or a British agent or just a crook out to enrich himself. And if he and Putin come to some understanding, maybe Trump sells him more US uranium, or gets a Ford plant set up in Siberia or even better, they agree to jointly kick the shit out of ISIS and work together to solve the Palestinian issue.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 16 Jul 2018, 02:31

Right! Trump and Putin are gonna get together like Superfriends and fight crime.

:roll:

So let me ask you Jimbo. You spend a lot of time searching out the truth behind all of the lies the US intelligence community and US media tells us right?

So to echo your own sentiments...if Greenwald and Parry and Uygar and Dore are right...what next? What do you intend to do? Why are you looking to poke the mighty US Intelligence conspiracy if not to provoke them and cause WWIII?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 16 Jul 2018, 03:35

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Right! Trump and Putin are gonna get together like Superfriends and fight crime.

:roll:

So let me ask you Jimbo. You spend a lot of time searching out the truth behind all of the lies the US intelligence community and US media tells us right?

So to echo your own sentiments...if Greenwald and Parry and Uygar and Dore are right...what next? What do you intend to do? Why are you looking to poke the mighty US Intelligence conspiracy if not to provoke them and cause WWIII?


I asked you first. What next? As the Mueller prosecution goes on and then concludes with an official negative finding against Russia what will the US then do?

Because I have never been averse to a benign dictatorship since I heard of the concept in high school history I am kind of hoping the intelligence community might revolt - benignly. (That explains my respect for Putin.) They are after all intelligent Americans. A coup would be interesting. Dumping Trump would be a fine first step. A deep state op to right the SS America. If a nation needs to be rebuilt it's the US. After all, if the CIA is running things now (not everything but a lot!) let them appoint, say, Elon Musk as our first president of the new era. This sounds ridiculous, of course but there are so many great ideas out here to make things better but they are drowned out by the entrenched and rich establishment. As positive examples look at how the US under Roosevelt remade Japan and Germany.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 16 Jul 2018, 03:54

Hey...what’s the difference between a benign dictatorship and a dictatorship?

Anyone know?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 16 Jul 2018, 03:56

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Hey...what’s the difference between a benign dictatorship and a dictatorship?

Anyone know?


I meant benevolent dictatorship which according to Google is

A benevolent dictatorship is a form of government in which an authoritarian leader exercises absolute political power over the state but does so for the benefit of the population as a whole.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 16 Jul 2018, 04:00

Who judges what is best for the population as a whole?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 16 Jul 2018, 04:02

.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 16 Jul 2018, 04:13

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Who judges what is best for the population as a whole?


A council of smart and kind people.

Look, my idea is of course ridiculous and won't happen so what will happen is more of the same wallowing around, more lies, more money skimmed by the rich with the masses mollified and distracted by more false flag events explained logical-ishly by the presstitutes. (Yeah I said it cuz it fits.) But hey, if you are happy living in a land of lies and giant screen TVs America is Number 1 for that.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 16 Jul 2018, 04:22

I’m still back on your council of “smart and kind” people.

So...Jimmy Dore and who else?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Geezee » 16 Jul 2018, 11:34

I know we should be used to it by now, and there's nothing that's perhaps particularly controversial about this press conference, but there's something about this rambling which is just spellbinding - in all the worst possible ways.

https://www.facebook.com/BBCPolitics/vi ... 733766238/

(can't find a link outside of facebook)
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 16 Jul 2018, 13:39

everyone who cares about American and international security should hope that the Trump-Putin summit results at least in a restoration of the diplomatic process, the longstanding “contacts,” between Washington and Moscow that have been greatly diminished, if not destroyed, by the new Cold War and by Russiagate allegations. Cold War without diplomacy is a recipe for actual war.


https://www.thenation.com/article/summi ... -vs-peace/
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Diamond Dog » 16 Jul 2018, 14:27

Geezee wrote:I know we should be used to it by now, and there's nothing that's perhaps particularly controversial about this press conference, but there's something about this rambling which is just spellbinding - in all the worst possible ways.

https://www.facebook.com/BBCPolitics/vi ... 733766238/

(can't find a link outside of facebook)



You know the weirdest thing about that is that he rambles incoherently about fuck knows what unconnected gibberish... but then says "Immigration. that's why you have Brexit - immigration".

And, if you ask 99% of the Brexiteers, he's right.

If you ask 99% of Remainers, they'd probably agree.

But for entirely different interpretations of that statement.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Rayge » 16 Jul 2018, 15:09

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 16 Jul 2018, 15:13

Jimbo wrote:I am not incurious about where this is heading I am fearful. What is the point of this one note ludicrous circus if not to provoke Russia? If Chait is right .... What? Okay, we poked you, what are you going about it? Russia will deny any of this especially when the bits of evidence, many of Chait's clues can be dismissed or diminished.

Wait a minute, have you already forgotten about Friday's indictment? In remarkable detail, it spells out who did what, and how.

There's no point in Russia "denying" it. These weren't rogue operators, but state agents acting in their official capacities.

The point of this "ludicrous circus" is to respond to, among other things, a cyber-attack perpetrated against us by a hostile foreign power, possibly with the complicity of powerful U.S. citizens. What's your strategy, to just "let it go?"

Jimbo wrote:Are you insulted that our Democracy, America's honor has been compromised or besmirched by a foreign government or are you angry that Hillary could have won if not for the Russians? The second part is now moot according to the Politifact quote. Or maybe you're really afraid Trump is a Russian agent. Or is he an Israeli agent or a British agent or just a crook out to enrich himself. And if he and Putin come to some understanding, maybe Trump sells him more US uranium, or gets a Ford plant set up in Siberia or even better, they agree to jointly kick the shit out of ISIS and work together to solve the Palestinian issue.


Again, I don't see the point of analyzing what motivates my concern. You act like this is a therapy session and you're trying to cure me by figuring what the root cause of my issue is. As much as I'm flattered by the attention, all I can say is this isn't about me! :)
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 16 Jul 2018, 15:27

Snarfyguy wrote:
Jimbo wrote: What's your strategy, to just "let it go?"


That'd be nice.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 16 Jul 2018, 15:37

Jimbo wrote:
Snarfyguy wrote:
Jimbo wrote: What's your strategy, to just "let it go?"


That'd be nice.


You let 9/11 go first.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 16 Jul 2018, 16:25

I enjoyed the quote from the Russian media this weekend that Trump is doing everything to the EU and NATO that Russia has been unsuccessfully trying to do for years.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Diamond Dog » 16 Jul 2018, 17:39

I think it takes an impressive level of ignorance to turn up in Finland to talk to the Finnish Prime Minister and Putin regarding NATO- and not realise that Finland isn't in NATO.
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