I'd like to walk in this garden...somehow I believe E is already in it.
elizabeth erin, the beezle
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never/ever
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Re: elizabeth erin, the beezle
kath wrote:i do not wanna buy the world a fucquin gotdamn coke.
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quix
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Re: I'm shocked and stunned at the terrible news
kath wrote:
happy birthday to my beluvved elizabeth erin of infinite beezleness, on this, what would've been her 23rd birthday. those of you on FB know i do my rolling day long beezlepalooza over there, but i thought i'd go ahead and at least get sumthin up here now, while some of ye folk in freaky, unnatural time zones have an international beezle day left. mwhaha. i'll be back later with a few additions.
the point, of course: to celebrate all she was/is/will be/stands for. grope yer local artist (this can be yer own self, naturally). hug yer local beluvved. carpe yer local diem. ya. have a fucquin day.
::smack::
what an abby groovy psyche deli fabby photie collage arty thang!
lots of love and thoughts and happiness xxx
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kath
- Groovy Queen of the Cosmos
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Re: elizabeth erin, the beezle
thanks to ye, dear folk, for the luvly words and gestures.
and thanks to the facebooked BCBers for the same.
ya know, i have much to say on this. shockinggggg, i know. mwhaha. (plus, i wanna put up pictures and crap like that. ya.) this day has not been my own, however. besetting besetters beset me so.
it's a damn good thing i don't pay much attention to the definition of a day. ahem. my day will take as long as it wants.
to be con't
::::smack:::::
and thanks to the facebooked BCBers for the same.
ya know, i have much to say on this. shockinggggg, i know. mwhaha. (plus, i wanna put up pictures and crap like that. ya.) this day has not been my own, however. besetting besetters beset me so.
it's a damn good thing i don't pay much attention to the definition of a day. ahem. my day will take as long as it wants.
to be con't
::::smack:::::
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lord_of_light88
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kath
- Groovy Queen of the Cosmos
- Posts: 35160
- Joined: 22 Feb 2006, 15:20
- Location: bama via new orleans
Re: elizabeth erin, the beezle
^^^smacketh upon yew, tew.
and here come the words... (heh)
i do know it's hard for some folk to get into my spirit of the thing. many reasons for that, of course. just in general, it's hard to separate out that conflicted jumble of emotions.
part of it: when her birthday comes around, that's the day when i have the least trouble running out into a field with a bullhorn and some bubbly, yelling, "yeahhh, baybees, beezle time. honor the beezle. find yer inner beezleness. find other beezles and luvvingly paint their butts. beezle it out, beezle it forward, bitches."
but *i* have the other 364 days of the year when i handle my philosophical balancing act, spread out. the person who hits me doing it on that day, especially the steamrolling beezlepalooza on my FB wall... that's probably his or her hardest day on my wall. mwhaha. (not that any of em are a walk in the park. ahem.)
it's hard cuz folk care about me, sympathize with such painful loss. other parents are keenly aware of that core parental fear, losing a child. other people are keenly aware of what loss of a beluvved is, period. that whole mix of powerful tangled up stuff trying to somehow live with bullhorn bubbly kath and her beezlepoms. mwhaha.
i get all that. all that makes me wanna slobber on people with gooey luvvv. but if i could, i would very gently grab the bottom of the chin of those who might need it and have em redirect. to beezleness, not my loss.
another part of it: that screwy philosophy of mine.
of course, we respond differently to the loss of a child at the start of the lifeline than we do to great gramps who died at age 112. we want people to have good, long lives. we want to be around our belluvveds as long as possible. personally, such losses anywhere along the line hurt just as fucquin much, but we have this idea of what a normal lifespan is, and we use it as a measurement of quality. understandable.
we also expect, like, kids to outlive their parents, and their kids to outlive them. that's the way it's sposed to work. the way it usually works. we're wired as humans to care on a zillion levels about those future lines still runnin after we're long gone. understandable.
but i think we get so caught up in thinking-by-lines, we can get just as blinded by em.
we think, okay, if my trip is 80 years... oops, 80 miles... well, if i just get in my car and handle things the way i should, i'm gonna get my stretch of 80... before i do my thelma-n-louise over the cliff. mind ya, nobody really wants to think about that cliff. people go into denial about it. just focus on the road, groovy. stare at the road. line driving.
then being humans, we add variations. okay, if i can just take everybody i luvv, throw em in the back seat of my car, we can all get thru the stretch to that hazyfuzzyendcliff together, all will be well.
then we start comparing lines with other people's lines. mwhaha. or we start putting sections of lines under a zoom lens. okayyy... maybe in this case, 20 miles is good enough. or 50. better than nuthin, although ideally, look at these miles they missed, man. damn.
if we have kids... it's, okay, i'm gonna get em there, before i cliffdive. by then, they'll know how to drive and they can handle their own car. that's what'll bridge the cliff.
but this way of thinking can be its own delusional offroad hazard. it becomes a numbers/mile markers game. a life cut too short. too short for what? some may think a handful of years is just negligible. those several extra years i got with the beez mean everything to me. when ya get right down to it, everybody's life is cut too fucquin short. blink of an eye, however you wanna total it up
yessss, we're all gonna die. everyone we love will die. and yer point would be...? to me, that fact is the least significant common denominator among humans. it's like sayin, oh look, we all have a pancreas. yeehaw.
when it comes to celebrating folk we love? the truth is, why we love a person or feel that person should be shared has nuthin to do with DNA, social definitions of family, the number of years said person existed on the planet... or even if they happen to be standing in the same room with us. at its most oversimplified, we know that a day with a person who inspires you or happifies yer life can mean more than 20 years with a friend who only ever borrows yer fucquin lawnmower.
what we reallly luv about each other... what we really wanna project over that cliff... has nuthin to do with bio-drive or half-empty/half-full line perception. when voyager took off with its chuck berry and bach, the point was not to launch chuck's pancreas across the cliff of space so that some alien docs could clone up a lil alien resurrection VII: johnny b borg. it *was* the impulse to say, heyyy, look, this is what's really groovy about us, listen to this shit, huh? (and if i coulda put beezle art in there, it would be look at this shit, huh?) that's the point. not whether a zillion years from now, when some alien finds voyager in his mailbox, we humans even still exist.
zoom in the lens a bit. what we luvv about bach has zero to do with how long he lived. people listen to jimi hendrix and they may say... oh, what if he could've had a full life? they might say that... but that aint the reason they're listenin to jimi hendrix. mwhaha. whatever is worthwhile about him is a function of his life, not his death. whatever grooviness passed on is a function of grooviness, not a timer.
on a personal, small scale, the principle is the same for me. what's groovy about beezleness, why we would wanna share it or spread it, has nuthin to do with whether she is still physically in the car. it is even more important for me to up-with-beezle becuz i flatout refuse to let what's great about her be backburnered becuz she is seen in terms of THE most understandable, sympathetic, sweet, acute reaction of all: caring about my pain. i'm gonna be stubborn about it, too. mwhaha.
bottom line: when i say i'm celebrating e's day of birth, what i am hoping for is for everyone to put on a party hat, crank some cocteaus (excellent track, maarts) and paint a beluvved other's butt. *i* think that is beezling it forward, voyagering it out... the meaning of life. ya ya.
realistically, i know not everyone can do that. overall? i thank everyone who does that. i also thank everyone who even attempts to do that. i thank everyone who fakes doing that. i add even more thanks to everyone who just shows up at the party to hug me cuz they don't know how the fucque to handle the rest of it and they want me to know they care... everybody.
i am gonna miss elizabeth standing in the room with me everyday for the rest of my life. ya? it's just that in the end, my missing her isn't nearly as important to me as the her part of it. the her that still surrounds me and functions inside of me, better than my pancreas. the her that deserves to be celebrated for her own sake, and how that might bebeezle others. the eternal wondrosity of the infinite beez uber alles. (feel free to replace the word beez with the beluvved name of yer own personal choosing, by the way. it's all the same point, ya know.)
and now i will put up pictures, for those who still have eyes after this post.
and here come the words... (heh)
i do know it's hard for some folk to get into my spirit of the thing. many reasons for that, of course. just in general, it's hard to separate out that conflicted jumble of emotions.
part of it: when her birthday comes around, that's the day when i have the least trouble running out into a field with a bullhorn and some bubbly, yelling, "yeahhh, baybees, beezle time. honor the beezle. find yer inner beezleness. find other beezles and luvvingly paint their butts. beezle it out, beezle it forward, bitches."
but *i* have the other 364 days of the year when i handle my philosophical balancing act, spread out. the person who hits me doing it on that day, especially the steamrolling beezlepalooza on my FB wall... that's probably his or her hardest day on my wall. mwhaha. (not that any of em are a walk in the park. ahem.)
it's hard cuz folk care about me, sympathize with such painful loss. other parents are keenly aware of that core parental fear, losing a child. other people are keenly aware of what loss of a beluvved is, period. that whole mix of powerful tangled up stuff trying to somehow live with bullhorn bubbly kath and her beezlepoms. mwhaha.
i get all that. all that makes me wanna slobber on people with gooey luvvv. but if i could, i would very gently grab the bottom of the chin of those who might need it and have em redirect. to beezleness, not my loss.
another part of it: that screwy philosophy of mine.
of course, we respond differently to the loss of a child at the start of the lifeline than we do to great gramps who died at age 112. we want people to have good, long lives. we want to be around our belluvveds as long as possible. personally, such losses anywhere along the line hurt just as fucquin much, but we have this idea of what a normal lifespan is, and we use it as a measurement of quality. understandable.
we also expect, like, kids to outlive their parents, and their kids to outlive them. that's the way it's sposed to work. the way it usually works. we're wired as humans to care on a zillion levels about those future lines still runnin after we're long gone. understandable.
but i think we get so caught up in thinking-by-lines, we can get just as blinded by em.
we think, okay, if my trip is 80 years... oops, 80 miles... well, if i just get in my car and handle things the way i should, i'm gonna get my stretch of 80... before i do my thelma-n-louise over the cliff. mind ya, nobody really wants to think about that cliff. people go into denial about it. just focus on the road, groovy. stare at the road. line driving.
then being humans, we add variations. okay, if i can just take everybody i luvv, throw em in the back seat of my car, we can all get thru the stretch to that hazyfuzzyendcliff together, all will be well.
then we start comparing lines with other people's lines. mwhaha. or we start putting sections of lines under a zoom lens. okayyy... maybe in this case, 20 miles is good enough. or 50. better than nuthin, although ideally, look at these miles they missed, man. damn.
if we have kids... it's, okay, i'm gonna get em there, before i cliffdive. by then, they'll know how to drive and they can handle their own car. that's what'll bridge the cliff.
but this way of thinking can be its own delusional offroad hazard. it becomes a numbers/mile markers game. a life cut too short. too short for what? some may think a handful of years is just negligible. those several extra years i got with the beez mean everything to me. when ya get right down to it, everybody's life is cut too fucquin short. blink of an eye, however you wanna total it up
yessss, we're all gonna die. everyone we love will die. and yer point would be...? to me, that fact is the least significant common denominator among humans. it's like sayin, oh look, we all have a pancreas. yeehaw.
when it comes to celebrating folk we love? the truth is, why we love a person or feel that person should be shared has nuthin to do with DNA, social definitions of family, the number of years said person existed on the planet... or even if they happen to be standing in the same room with us. at its most oversimplified, we know that a day with a person who inspires you or happifies yer life can mean more than 20 years with a friend who only ever borrows yer fucquin lawnmower.
what we reallly luv about each other... what we really wanna project over that cliff... has nuthin to do with bio-drive or half-empty/half-full line perception. when voyager took off with its chuck berry and bach, the point was not to launch chuck's pancreas across the cliff of space so that some alien docs could clone up a lil alien resurrection VII: johnny b borg. it *was* the impulse to say, heyyy, look, this is what's really groovy about us, listen to this shit, huh? (and if i coulda put beezle art in there, it would be look at this shit, huh?) that's the point. not whether a zillion years from now, when some alien finds voyager in his mailbox, we humans even still exist.
zoom in the lens a bit. what we luvv about bach has zero to do with how long he lived. people listen to jimi hendrix and they may say... oh, what if he could've had a full life? they might say that... but that aint the reason they're listenin to jimi hendrix. mwhaha. whatever is worthwhile about him is a function of his life, not his death. whatever grooviness passed on is a function of grooviness, not a timer.
on a personal, small scale, the principle is the same for me. what's groovy about beezleness, why we would wanna share it or spread it, has nuthin to do with whether she is still physically in the car. it is even more important for me to up-with-beezle becuz i flatout refuse to let what's great about her be backburnered becuz she is seen in terms of THE most understandable, sympathetic, sweet, acute reaction of all: caring about my pain. i'm gonna be stubborn about it, too. mwhaha.
bottom line: when i say i'm celebrating e's day of birth, what i am hoping for is for everyone to put on a party hat, crank some cocteaus (excellent track, maarts) and paint a beluvved other's butt. *i* think that is beezling it forward, voyagering it out... the meaning of life. ya ya.
realistically, i know not everyone can do that. overall? i thank everyone who does that. i also thank everyone who even attempts to do that. i thank everyone who fakes doing that. i add even more thanks to everyone who just shows up at the party to hug me cuz they don't know how the fucque to handle the rest of it and they want me to know they care... everybody.
i am gonna miss elizabeth standing in the room with me everyday for the rest of my life. ya? it's just that in the end, my missing her isn't nearly as important to me as the her part of it. the her that still surrounds me and functions inside of me, better than my pancreas. the her that deserves to be celebrated for her own sake, and how that might bebeezle others. the eternal wondrosity of the infinite beez uber alles. (feel free to replace the word beez with the beluvved name of yer own personal choosing, by the way. it's all the same point, ya know.)
and now i will put up pictures, for those who still have eyes after this post.
Last edited by kath on 24 Sep 2013, 19:49, edited 1 time in total.
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kath
- Groovy Queen of the Cosmos
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Re: elizabeth erin, the beezle
first, some of the bigger beezle pieces that i used in that collage, for those who haven't seen em.
p.s. some of you may remember the beez friend who got the 'foot' critter tattoo... she has since gotten the other foot done. mwhaha. i'll hafta refind the pic, though.
these next two were the first big things she did in high school... got her exhibited and got her a scholarship.
the assignment. take a basic profile of yerself and do something with it. all of the book titles you see, monsters, critters, movie titles running thru her hair, eyeballs everywhere (i have eyeball superballs on my shelves.. we're a weird family) were for my benefit. heh.
the assignment: take a famous work of art and make a play on it, make it yers. she was an escher freak, even then. again, personal refs strewn about in there. she came up with the black spot on the hand after reading jackson's "the lottery"...
the photo i used in the collage:
and the one in the cocteaus thingie:
other pics i put up for this year's roll:
i luvv this pic. how you can tell when a pic is snapped just a lillllll too late in the day...
i've posted these next two here in this thread, but they always get repeats becuz they are really my all-time e as arteeste pics.
elizabeth and e lizardbeth
sigh. the chi sneaked this pic, when the e was unloading panels from the car into the house. it is utterly unposed and unscripted... just that one luvvin second in time.
an old friend of mine appeared outta nowhere and gave me kid pics i didn't even remember existed. that's just a wunnnnnnerful thing.
p.s. some of you may remember the beez friend who got the 'foot' critter tattoo... she has since gotten the other foot done. mwhaha. i'll hafta refind the pic, though.
these next two were the first big things she did in high school... got her exhibited and got her a scholarship.
the assignment. take a basic profile of yerself and do something with it. all of the book titles you see, monsters, critters, movie titles running thru her hair, eyeballs everywhere (i have eyeball superballs on my shelves.. we're a weird family) were for my benefit. heh.
the assignment: take a famous work of art and make a play on it, make it yers. she was an escher freak, even then. again, personal refs strewn about in there. she came up with the black spot on the hand after reading jackson's "the lottery"...
the photo i used in the collage:
and the one in the cocteaus thingie:
other pics i put up for this year's roll:
i luvv this pic. how you can tell when a pic is snapped just a lillllll too late in the day...
i've posted these next two here in this thread, but they always get repeats becuz they are really my all-time e as arteeste pics.
elizabeth and e lizardbeth
sigh. the chi sneaked this pic, when the e was unloading panels from the car into the house. it is utterly unposed and unscripted... just that one luvvin second in time.
an old friend of mine appeared outta nowhere and gave me kid pics i didn't even remember existed. that's just a wunnnnnnerful thing.
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C
- Robust
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Re: elizabeth erin, the beezle
Fantastic photos kath
A beautiful girl
Yes, a beautiful girl
x
A beautiful girl
Yes, a beautiful girl
x
neville harp wrote:God bless you brother C x
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never/ever
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Re: elizabeth erin, the beezle
Breaks yer heart, doesn't it?
kath wrote:i do not wanna buy the world a fucquin gotdamn coke.
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Rayge
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Re: elizabeth erin, the beezle
Hey Kath, I just read this entire thread, and while there's no way I could do it justice, I just wanted to say how much of what you said resonated with what I have been experiencing over the last two years or so since my wife was diagnosed with the illness that killed her.
Of course the circumstances were very different, but so many of the conclusions you came to – the basic uselessness of funerals, the importance of emphasizing birth and achievement over death, the strain of keeping feelings in for the sake of other people, the importance of healing rifts and letting the people you care about know that you care about them, the necessity of letting them out and simply being crazy at a time and place within your control, and more – are the same as Chip and I believed. And to articulate them so well, and with such grace, is just extraordinary.
I salute you
Of course the circumstances were very different, but so many of the conclusions you came to – the basic uselessness of funerals, the importance of emphasizing birth and achievement over death, the strain of keeping feelings in for the sake of other people, the importance of healing rifts and letting the people you care about know that you care about them, the necessity of letting them out and simply being crazy at a time and place within your control, and more – are the same as Chip and I believed. And to articulate them so well, and with such grace, is just extraordinary.
I salute you
In timeless moments we live forever
You can't play a tune on an absolute
Negative Capability...when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, Mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact & reason”
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kath
- Groovy Queen of the Cosmos
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Re: elizabeth erin, the beezle
c: why thank yew, kind sir.
maarts: there will come that day when you and i get that sick, golden opportunity to sing karaoke together. hopefully, it will be whilst sailing the pink and proggy seas, but the context isn't the real point. somewhere during our karaoke, we will hit the cocteaus. the great thing about the cocteaus: we can be as sloshed as humans can be... yet we will have no trouble singing cocteaus. yes? sometimes, it is a groovy thing when words aren't so much words as they are the ideas of words.
in fact, i'd kinda like to see a screen prompter and what it would do with cocteau lyrics. mwhahaHA. ohhh. but never mind that now. the singing is the thinging, even if all the ears in the world hide, cowering.
rayge : do you wanna know what my first version of one of my above paragraphs looked like? it looked like this, god's honest truth:
i am gonna miss elizabeth standing in the room with me everyday for the rest of my life. ya? it's just that in the end, my missing her isn't nearly as important to me as the her part of it. the her that still surrounds me and functions inside of me, better than my pancreas. the her that deserves to be celebrated for her own sake, and how that might bebeezle others. every time i see rayge post a pic of chip, wherever she is, lookin beautiful smiling out of a cabin window, i wanna run around with a chip tee shirt on. i wanna be in the middle of a grocery store around complete strangers, pointin to my shirt, goin "do you see? do you have eyes??" of course, everyday is chip day for rayge. and everyday is beezle day for me. but that's the point, right there... wearing the luvv for all to see. the eternal wondrosity of the infinite...
... and then i thought better of it. keep in mind it is pretty rare for me to (a) think, and (b) think better enough to edit content points, really. i dunno... yer kinda new. everybody else here is used to my unabridged mouth. i have this tendency to attach to folk like a sucker fish in under ten seconds, and i do realize that can be a bit of a jolt to people. i wouldn't wanna make you feel uncomfy or singled out. wouldn't want you to think i was making light of it with the tee shirt thing, although it's the opposite in my screwy mind.
just my way of saying i know you know. i have, ever since i first read the chip blog when you posted in the new members thread. there are, of course, others here who know, too, even though two of em only ever post on facebook now, thus pissin my ass right the hell off.
thanks for the wunnerful words. here's to wearin it, from the inside out.
:::::smack::::::
maarts: there will come that day when you and i get that sick, golden opportunity to sing karaoke together. hopefully, it will be whilst sailing the pink and proggy seas, but the context isn't the real point. somewhere during our karaoke, we will hit the cocteaus. the great thing about the cocteaus: we can be as sloshed as humans can be... yet we will have no trouble singing cocteaus. yes? sometimes, it is a groovy thing when words aren't so much words as they are the ideas of words.
in fact, i'd kinda like to see a screen prompter and what it would do with cocteau lyrics. mwhahaHA. ohhh. but never mind that now. the singing is the thinging, even if all the ears in the world hide, cowering.
rayge : do you wanna know what my first version of one of my above paragraphs looked like? it looked like this, god's honest truth:
i am gonna miss elizabeth standing in the room with me everyday for the rest of my life. ya? it's just that in the end, my missing her isn't nearly as important to me as the her part of it. the her that still surrounds me and functions inside of me, better than my pancreas. the her that deserves to be celebrated for her own sake, and how that might bebeezle others. every time i see rayge post a pic of chip, wherever she is, lookin beautiful smiling out of a cabin window, i wanna run around with a chip tee shirt on. i wanna be in the middle of a grocery store around complete strangers, pointin to my shirt, goin "do you see? do you have eyes??" of course, everyday is chip day for rayge. and everyday is beezle day for me. but that's the point, right there... wearing the luvv for all to see. the eternal wondrosity of the infinite...
... and then i thought better of it. keep in mind it is pretty rare for me to (a) think, and (b) think better enough to edit content points, really. i dunno... yer kinda new. everybody else here is used to my unabridged mouth. i have this tendency to attach to folk like a sucker fish in under ten seconds, and i do realize that can be a bit of a jolt to people. i wouldn't wanna make you feel uncomfy or singled out. wouldn't want you to think i was making light of it with the tee shirt thing, although it's the opposite in my screwy mind.
just my way of saying i know you know. i have, ever since i first read the chip blog when you posted in the new members thread. there are, of course, others here who know, too, even though two of em only ever post on facebook now, thus pissin my ass right the hell off.
thanks for the wunnerful words. here's to wearin it, from the inside out.
:::::smack::::::
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kath
- Groovy Queen of the Cosmos
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Re: elizabeth erin, the beezle
happy birthday to my beluvved elizabeth erin, the beezle of infinite beezledom, the spawn of perpetual groovitude, on this, what would've been her 24th birthday. yea, go forth and hug a painting, lick a sculpture, spin some cocteaus and slobber on all those around you asking to be beslobbered. as usual, i'm gonna do the main roll today over on facebook, but that won't stop me from putting up some pics here and now. i'll come back to it later.
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Hugh
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Re: elizabeth erin, the beezle
Happy birthday Beezle.
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Charlie O.
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never/ever
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Re: elizabeth erin, the beezle
Have a kissed out red floatboat spangled fritillary of a birthday ee!
kath wrote:i do not wanna buy the world a fucquin gotdamn coke.
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the masked man
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Re: elizabeth erin, the beezle
Happy birthday, beezle!
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kath
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Re: elizabeth erin, the beezle
thanks, sweet people, who see into the spirit of things. (thanks to all the facebookers as well.)
the other pics on the FB roll this year, for those not there:
... and the ever popular put-on-yer-hardhat-take-off-yer-socks routine.
consider yerselves appreciated and besmacked.
the other pics on the FB roll this year, for those not there:
... and the ever popular put-on-yer-hardhat-take-off-yer-socks routine.
consider yerselves appreciated and besmacked.
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Geezee
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kath
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Re: elizabeth erin, the beezle
thank you both.
otterley's a great track.
i had this one runnin through my head yesterday...
... along with wax and wane. the beezle once sent me a deftones cd, just for their cover of it.
otterley's a great track.
i had this one runnin through my head yesterday...
... along with wax and wane. the beezle once sent me a deftones cd, just for their cover of it.
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kath
- Groovy Queen of the Cosmos
- Posts: 35160
- Joined: 22 Feb 2006, 15:20
- Location: bama via new orleans
Re: elizabeth erin, the beezle
i did this over on facebook, only right to do it here as well.
i just made the holiday trip down home. brought flowers and a gift for the spirit of beezledom. it occurs to me that i haven't posted a pic from the cemetery for a few years. i think it would be a good idea to show y'all the growing honorary collection over time. (the groundskeepers at metairie cemetery really are sooo groovy. they make sure everything stays the way it should be. they watch over all with luvvin care. they always have a lighter, too. my kinda people.)
i just made the holiday trip down home. brought flowers and a gift for the spirit of beezledom. it occurs to me that i haven't posted a pic from the cemetery for a few years. i think it would be a good idea to show y'all the growing honorary collection over time. (the groundskeepers at metairie cemetery really are sooo groovy. they make sure everything stays the way it should be. they watch over all with luvvin care. they always have a lighter, too. my kinda people.)
Last edited by kath on 22 Sep 2017, 22:49, edited 1 time in total.