AFI: 100 Greatest Films - STRIPPED

[Snarfyguy]

Don't be patronizing, Davey.

Help! That remark is patronizing!

[Matt Wilson]

Don't be patronizing, Davey.

Help! That remark is patronizing!

Are you being a cunt, Chris?

[Mr Maps]

Don't be patronizing, Davey.

Help! That remark is patronizing!

Are you being a cunt, Chris?

I think he's being a patron.

[The Modernist]

There was the same debate in the US. So what? The debate was ridiculous. The Deer Hunter isn't portraying itself as a true life event like My Darling Clementine therefore you can't use the same criteria to judge it. It's as simple as that.

Besides, to play devil's advocate how do you know someone, somewhere didn't play Russian Roulette in the jungles of Vietnam or in Saigon? You'd have a hard time proving otherwise.
When you watch Gone with the Wind do you complain that there's no documented evidence of a guy with two women (one of them pregnant) escaping the burning of Atlanta during the Civil War? Or how about in From Here to Eternity when Pruitt tries to rejoin the Army after deserting it and is shot. Geez, I never read of that happening...

I could go on and on...

Utterly specious Matt, The Deerhunter was one of the first Vietnam films a mere four years after US withdrawl. You can't compare it to some historical melodrama especially as the film itself had spent the first 90 minutes parading its naturalism.

[The Modernist]

16.ALL ABOUT EVE (1950)
21.THE GRAPES OF WRATH (1940)
23.THE MALTESE FALCON (1941)
26.DR. STRANGELOVE (1964)
28.APOCALYPSE NOW (1979)
38.DOUBLE INDEMNITY (1944)
57.THE THIRD MAN (1949)
61.VERTIGO (1958)

Sorry something had to go. North By Northwest seems a little slight compared to the heavyweights around it.

[Davey the Fat Boy]

There was the same debate in the US. So what? The debate was ridiculous. The Deer Hunter isn't portraying itself as a true life event like My Darling Clementine therefore you can't use the same criteria to judge it. It's as simple as that.

Besides, to play devil's advocate how do you know someone, somewhere didn't play Russian Roulette in the jungles of Vietnam or in Saigon? You'd have a hard time proving otherwise.
When you watch Gone with the Wind do you complain that there's no documented evidence of a guy with two women (one of them pregnant) escaping the burning of Atlanta during the Civil War? Or how about in From Here to Eternity when Pruitt tries to rejoin the Army after deserting it and is shot. Geez, I never read of that happening...

I could go on and on...

Utterly specious Matt, The Deerhunter was one of the first Vietnam films a mere four years after US withdrawl. You can't compare it to some historical melodrama especially as the film itself had spent the first 90 minutes parading its naturalism.

I don't see where accuracy factors in at all with either film. If I want accuracy I'll buy a book or search out a documentary. When I watch a feature film I'm looking for some kind of artistic statement or at least entertainment. I don't have the expectation that what I am watching is absolutely factually true.

Why do you care about this?

[The Modernist]

There was the same debate in the US. So what? The debate was ridiculous. The Deer Hunter isn't portraying itself as a true life event like My Darling Clementine therefore you can't use the same criteria to judge it. It's as simple as that.

Besides, to play devil's advocate how do you know someone, somewhere didn't play Russian Roulette in the jungles of Vietnam or in Saigon? You'd have a hard time proving otherwise.
When you watch Gone with the Wind do you complain that there's no documented evidence of a guy with two women (one of them pregnant) escaping the burning of Atlanta during the Civil War? Or how about in From Here to Eternity when Pruitt tries to rejoin the Army after deserting it and is shot. Geez, I never read of that happening...

I could go on and on...

Utterly specious Matt, The Deerhunter was one of the first Vietnam films a mere four years after US withdrawl. You can't compare it to some historical melodrama especially as the film itself had spent the first 90 minutes parading its naturalism.

I don't see where accuracy factors in at all with either film. If I want accuracy I'll buy a book or search out a documentary. When I watch a feature film I'm looking for some kind of artistic statement or at least entertainment. I don't have the expectation that what I am watching is absolutely factually true.

Why do you care about this?

I like the film a lot, I find the roulette sequence immensely powerful. We can take it as an audacious metaphor for the way war dehumanises prehaps. Nevertheless the film had spent the previous 90 minutes or so establishing a realism, there was nothing in the narrative to prepare you for such an outrageous fiction. And there is a political subtext to this, which is a representation of the vietnamese as inhumane sadists. Given it's closeness to the events it was depicting you can quite see why some would see this as crude propaganda.
I'm uneasy about it while recognising its brilliance. Film can be like that, it doesn't have to be black and white.

[toomanyhatz]

21.THE GRAPES OF WRATH (1940)
23.THE MALTESE FALCON (1941)
26.DR. STRANGELOVE (1964)
28.APOCALYPSE NOW (1979)
38.DOUBLE INDEMNITY (1944)
57.THE THIRD MAN (1949)
61.VERTIGO (1958)

There's no way to do this without pissing someone off. So I'm a rebel. I'm edgy. And you can't stop me! I'm out of control!! Bwahahahahaha!!

But seriously, folks. ALL ABOUT EVE had to go. Great acting and incredibly incisive dialogue. And I'm sad to lose it because it's the best of its genre, leaving no truly dialogue-driven scripts. And that's too bad. But it just doesn't do it for me emotionally like the others here do.

It's the two lowest ranked ones I'm most rooting for out of what's left, although I too wonder what THE THIRD MAN's doing here. It's not an American film- not an American director, not made here, not set here. What's the deal? Classic, classic film though.

[The Modernist]

It's the two lowest ranked ones I'm most rooting for out of what's left, although I too wonder what THE THIRD MAN's doing here. It's not an American film- not an American director, not made here, not set here. What's the deal? Classic, classic film though.

Well technically it's a co-production. It seems to have more American imput than Lawrence Of arabia even if the latter came out of a hollywood studio (United Artists I think, but I haven't checked that).

[Davey the Fat Boy]

There was the same debate in the US. So what? The debate was ridiculous. The Deer Hunter isn't portraying itself as a true life event like My Darling Clementine therefore you can't use the same criteria to judge it. It's as simple as that.

Besides, to play devil's advocate how do you know someone, somewhere didn't play Russian Roulette in the jungles of Vietnam or in Saigon? You'd have a hard time proving otherwise.
When you watch Gone with the Wind do you complain that there's no documented evidence of a guy with two women (one of them pregnant) escaping the burning of Atlanta during the Civil War? Or how about in From Here to Eternity when Pruitt tries to rejoin the Army after deserting it and is shot. Geez, I never read of that happening...

I could go on and on...

Utterly specious Matt, The Deerhunter was one of the first Vietnam films a mere four years after US withdrawl. You can't compare it to some historical melodrama especially as the film itself had spent the first 90 minutes parading its naturalism.

I don't see where accuracy factors in at all with either film. If I want accuracy I'll buy a book or search out a documentary. When I watch a feature film I'm looking for some kind of artistic statement or at least entertainment. I don't have the expectation that what I am watching is absolutely factually true.

Why do you care about this?

I like the film a lot, I find the roulette sequence immensely powerful. We can take it as an audacious metaphor for the way war dehumanises prehaps. Nevertheless the film had spent the precious 90 minutes or so establishing a realism, there was nothing in the narrative to prepare you for such an outrageous fiction. And there is a political subtext to this, which is a representation of the vietnamese as inhumane sadists. Given it's closeness to the events it was depicting you can quite see why some would see this as crude propaganda.
I'm uneasy about it while recognising its brilliance. Film can be like that, it doesn't have to be black and white.

Sure I can see how people would see things that way. The benefit of time is that it wipes those issues away and allows you to see things more clearly.

Interestingly, while some may have seen The Deer Hunter as propaganda then, today many are struck by the film's unwillingness to take a strident position as exemplified by Cimino's choice to end it with a seemingly un-ironic singing of "God Bless America". If the Deer Hunter meant to be propaganda, it is bad propaganda. If it meant to be art, it is great art.

Like you said - nothing is black and white. People can hold conflicting opinions. All I'm saying is that, when it comes to film, opinions based on historical accuracy seldom hold much weight with me.

[Davey the Fat Boy]

It's the two lowest ranked ones I'm most rooting for out of what's left

I'll show my cards and come out and say that I'm rooting for one of the two. In my mind Vertigo is the only film left that makes sense emerging as the top dog here after the more obvious choices were stripped. If those people who took Citizen Kane, The Godfather and Gone With the Wind did so to try and get to a less hyped film that arguably might justify the title of "best film ever" - Vertigo IMHO is the only one left that can shoulder that title.

[Ranking Ted]

23.THE MALTESE FALCON (1941)
26.DR. STRANGELOVE (1964)
28.APOCALYPSE NOW (1979)
38.DOUBLE INDEMNITY (1944)
57.THE THIRD MAN (1949)
61.VERTIGO (1958)

Goodbye to the Grapes of Wrath. These all have more watchability on a repeat basis for me.

I'm rooting for the plucky Brit. That'll kill it.

[Snarfyguy]

Citizen Kane, The Godfather and Gone With the Wind

Does Gone With the Wind typically keep such august company? I admit, I haven't seen it since I was a teenager, when I had no use whatsoever for it, but I've always thought it was generally considered (critically, rather than popularly) an overheated melodrama.

[Bungo the Mungo]

23.THE MALTESE FALCON (1941)
28.APOCALYPSE NOW (1979)
38.DOUBLE INDEMNITY (1944)
57.THE THIRD MAN (1949)
61.VERTIGO (1958)

Dr. Strangelove had to go. It's not quite as good as the rest, in that it's not as plainly enjoyable. And it's a little too in love with itself.

[Ranking Ted]

23.THE MALTESE FALCON (1941)
28.APOCALYPSE NOW (1979)
38.DOUBLE INDEMNITY (1944)
57.THE THIRD MAN (1949)
61.VERTIGO (1958)

Dr. Strangelove had to go. It's not quite as good as the rest, in that it's not as plainly enjoyable. And it's a little too in love with itself.

Oh, I don't agree that it's in love with itself. It's Kubrick, so of course it's more, er, mathematical than your usual black comedy, and Sellers does perhaps overindulge (if brilliantly) but it's hugely enjoyable and perfect in itself.

It's among heady company here though, so I don't necessarily disagree that it was the one to go at this stage.

[Davey the Fat Boy]

Citizen Kane, The Godfather and Gone With the Wind

Does Gone With the Wind typically keep such august company? I admit, I haven't seen it since I was a teenager, when I had no use whatsoever for it, but I've always thought it was generally considered (critically, rather than popularly) an overheated melodrama.

Depends on who you are talking to.

I included it in that grouping because it has a strong following for the title of "best film ever." Perhaps not as much by critics, but if this exercise ended up with that film as the result, it would not be the first time a group of people settled on it as their consensus pick.

[The Modernist]

23.THE MALTESE FALCON (1941)
28.APOCALYPSE NOW (1979)
38.DOUBLE INDEMNITY (1944)
57.THE THIRD MAN (1949)
61.VERTIGO (1958)

Dr. Strangelove had to go. It's not quite as good as the rest, in that it's not as plainly enjoyable. And it's a little too in love with itself.

I would have gone for it next as well.
I'd be happy for any of these to win it.

[Davey the Fat Boy]

23.THE MALTESE FALCON (1941)
28.APOCALYPSE NOW (1979)
38.DOUBLE INDEMNITY (1944)
57.THE THIRD MAN (1949)
61.VERTIGO (1958)

I'm actually amazed at this list emerging as a top 5. Not what I would have thought in the beginning at all, but a pretty tremendous batch of films.

[Jimbly]

23.THE MALTESE FALCON (1941)
26.DR. STRANGELOVE (1964)

38.DOUBLE INDEMNITY (1944)
57.THE THIRD MAN (1949)
61.VERTIGO (1958)

Apocalypse Now goes as its a bit of a mess and Denis Hopper is in it

[The Modernist]

23.THE MALTESE FALCON (1941)
38.DOUBLE INDEMNITY (1944)
57.THE THIRD MAN (1949)
61.VERTIGO (1958)

down to four then.