The Godfather Thread

..and why not?
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Belle Lettre
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Re: The Godfather Thread

Postby Belle Lettre » 25 Jul 2011, 11:06

I love watching the deleted scenes in the box set.
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Re: The Godfather Thread

Postby Matt Wilson » 25 Jul 2011, 16:40

The RightGraduate Profile wrote:
Lance Matthew wrote:
The RightGraduate Profile wrote: It's also worth pointing out how much the colour scheme of the Conformist clearly influenced the Godfather (Part I)- Gordon Willis's genuis was to take those dark, dreamy shadows and ramp up the harshness of the pallette considerably.


But The Conformist came two years after Godfather 1.


You've got it backwards, it came out two years before the Godfather Part I. And I'm sure Coppola would've been aware of it, he's spoken about its influence before, and even hired the cinematographer for the Conformist for Apocalypse Now. It's not exactly a stretch to claim it, the colour scheme and indeed some of the techniques used, are very similar.

Anyway, I re-watched the Godfather Part I this weekend, but will post something when I get home from work tonight.


You're right, for some reason I was thinking that you were talking about The Conversation, not The Conformist.
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Re: The Godfather Thread

Postby beenieman » 26 Jul 2011, 01:31

The RightGraduate Profile wrote:What's really surprising about the first film is that there are very few scenes featuring Vito where he isn't performing some sort of favour or trying to patch things up. The wedding scene alone (which lasts about 25 minutes) sees him answering about a dozen requests in accordance with his "code". In contrast, as soon as Michael becomes Don, one of his first actions is to establish power by wiping out all of his rivals, and in the second film, he doesn't perform a single "true" favour for anyone. But the question remains- could there logically have been any other successor? The great irony is that the one person who could have (relatively) seamlessly shepherded the family into legitimacy, Tom Hagen, could never become Don because he wasn't a true member of the family. So it means that Michael was the best choice by process of elimination- Sonny was such a hothead that it was a matter of time before he "got his" eventually (it's pretty much foreshadowed throughout the first film, the only surprise is that it takes so long), whereas Fredo was too weak-willed.

Good point about Tony Soprano- I think the lack of respect was paradoxically down to both the anger issues and the perceived "weakness" of him trying to address it through years of (ultimately futile) therapy.

In terms of succession it could only be Michael. The problem is there was a change in values between generations and Michael was never going to be the patriach (Godfather) Vito was. Michael was a CEO but that wouldn't have worked as a movie title.

Tony was betrayed time and time again even by Carmella. This reflects how the real Mafia fell apart. Tony would have been a better Godfather if he'd done it 40-50 years earlier when there was an unconditional loyalty to the boss. Just as in corporate structure loyalty is a two way street. You got to give it to earn it. Michael never gave it, he was too wrapped up in his corporate scheming. Tony gave it but times had changed and he never received it. Mafia movies tell us much about our culture beyond just a look in at italian gangster behaviours.
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Re: The Godfather Thread

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 26 Jul 2011, 01:49

beenieman wrote:
The RightGraduate Profile wrote:What's really surprising about the first film is that there are very few scenes featuring Vito where he isn't performing some sort of favour or trying to patch things up. The wedding scene alone (which lasts about 25 minutes) sees him answering about a dozen requests in accordance with his "code". In contrast, as soon as Michael becomes Don, one of his first actions is to establish power by wiping out all of his rivals, and in the second film, he doesn't perform a single "true" favour for anyone. But the question remains- could there logically have been any other successor? The great irony is that the one person who could have (relatively) seamlessly shepherded the family into legitimacy, Tom Hagen, could never become Don because he wasn't a true member of the family. So it means that Michael was the best choice by process of elimination- Sonny was such a hothead that it was a matter of time before he "got his" eventually (it's pretty much foreshadowed throughout the first film, the only surprise is that it takes so long), whereas Fredo was too weak-willed.

Good point about Tony Soprano- I think the lack of respect was paradoxically down to both the anger issues and the perceived "weakness" of him trying to address it through years of (ultimately futile) therapy.

In terms of succession it could only be Michael. The problem is there was a change in values between generations and Michael was never going to be the patriach (Godfather) Vito was. Michael was a CEO but that wouldn't have worked as a movie title.

Tony was betrayed time and time again even by Carmella. This reflects how the real Mafia fell apart. Tony would have been a better Godfather if he'd done it 40-50 years earlier when there was an unconditional loyalty to the boss. Just as in corporate structure loyalty is a two way street. You got to give it to earn it. Michael never gave it, he was too wrapped up in his corporate scheming. Tony gave it but times had changed and he never received it. Mafia movies tell us much about our culture beyond just a look in at italian gangster behaviours.


I'm pretty sure you intended to say this, but when you talk about a change of values between generations, I think it important to note that the biggest change wasn't that Michael was so different from Vito, but rather that the world changed around him. The entire notion of community broke down in America in the span of that generation.
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Re: The Godfather Thread

Postby beenieman » 26 Jul 2011, 04:57

Davey Avon FatBoy wrote:I'm pretty sure you intended to say this, but when you talk about a change of values between generations, I think it important to note that the biggest change wasn't that Michael was so different from Vite, but rather that the world changed around him. The entire notion of community broke down in America in the span of that generation.

That's what I wanted to say. Michael reflected America's (the world's) change in values which is why the story is about more than an Italian family of gangsters.
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Re: The Godfather Thread

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 23 Jun 2012, 04:46

Good thread all around.
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Re: The Godfather Thread

Postby beenieman » 23 Jun 2012, 07:05

Davey Avon PattyMelt wrote:Good thread all around.

indeed.
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Re: The Godfather Thread

Postby inthenextlife » 23 Jun 2012, 10:41

beenieman wrote:
Davey Avon PattyMelt wrote:Good thread all around.

indeed.


Indeed. Godfather 3 still gets a bit of a mixed review but I love the scene when he is at the Christening and it segues with his men carrying out a massive hit on the family's enemies. The first two are classics of their genre and I generally love Coppola's movies, even 'One From The Heart'.
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Re: The Godfather Thread

Postby Sneelock » 24 Oct 2013, 20:38

Give me a C, a bouncy C!

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Re: The Godfather Thread

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 25 Oct 2013, 15:20

Mario's got issues.
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Re: The Godfather Thread

Postby Sneelock » 25 Oct 2013, 16:55

no shit. Yes, Virginia, there IS a Cosa-Nostra! :roll:
at least he admits it's a good 'un.
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Re: The Godfather Thread

Postby Sneelock » 25 Oct 2013, 17:09

Politically, I think Mario wanted to have his cake and eat it too.
He liked using that hand waving, push yourself away from the table bigger than life largesse as part of his personal style. Clinton pointed out what many people were reminded of when they saw it. I always thought this was a low blow on Clinton's part but Mario, even as he decried Clinton making the association, might as well have been eating pasta with a bib and chucking his fingers under his chin.

Now, should these mannerisms be singled out as "Italian" if singled out at all? Is associating them with organized crime in itself an act of racism? In Clinton's case - maybe. Still, I worked retail when The Sopranos" was hitting pop culture critical mass. I feel safe in saying that almost every male over 40 that I waited on wanted to BE a Soprano. People started jutting their bellies out and poking their fingers in the air and saying "HEY!" and "fuggedaboutit!". Keep in mind, very few of these people were of Italian descent but they wanted to be seen as mobsters just as a personal style. I think maybe Mario might have done at least a little of that sort of thing. I'm not saying he watched 'the sopranos" of course, only that, for all his talk of stereotypes I think he played that "macho" card at least subconsciously. I think this is part of why he was an interesting politician at the time. He spoke with compassion but authority.

Now that he's watched The Godfather, he can put a horse head in somebody's bed without fear of reprimand. ;)
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Re: The Godfather Thread

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 21 Jan 2018, 17:30

Bump
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Re: The Godfather Thread

Postby Belle Lettre » 21 Jan 2018, 19:37

I've always wondered how Kay could have contrived an abortion given that she wasn't even allowed to leave the estate to go to the market, for her protection. I've been inclining toward the feeling that it was a genuine miscarriage, and she told Michael she'd had an abortion purely to torture him as she hated him by then.

Very much enjoyed rereading this thread.
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Re: The Godfather Thread

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 22 Jan 2018, 00:53

That’s an interesting thought - and pretty plausible.

I’d never really thought about how difficult it would have been for her to get an abortion. You can imagine a whole subplot around what it might have taken to do.
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