Roseanne

..and why not?
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Dr Markus
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Re: Roseanne

Postby Dr Markus » 15 May 2018, 11:21

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
Dr Markus wrote:Thought they've been trying to be realistic when they "go there". Not always succesfull, but trying.


It’s a sitcom. Realism doesn’t really enter into it. If a sitcom is going to delve into issues, it ought to have an interesting take on them.


That doesn't make sense. They topics they cover are real and happening all over America.

How do you unrealistically approach
1. A grandson that wants to wear skirts to school aged ten and they're worried he's gonna get beat up? Not really caring about your own thoughts on the matter as long as he's safe
2. Your son, a war veteran, dealing with PTSD
3. Understanding while illegal immigration work for shitty money, that's why they get the jobs, but at the same time the Connors gotta work too.
4. Dealing with your own prejudice against Muslims.

I think they did have an interesting take on most of them, the take being, being realistic about the issue. For example, Yeah if the kid wants to wear a skirt to school, let him, but let him know the chances are he's gonna get bullied or beat up by some kids. If you had a boy that wanted to do the same, forgetting about it you agree with it or not, you'd be worried about his safety.
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: Roseanne

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 15 May 2018, 20:13

All of the issues you listed above are dealt with in a pretty shallow way. It isn’t that the concerns of the characters aren’t understandable in some way...but if you are going to choose to deal with gender nonconformity...what are you saying about it?

This show wants to look edgy by taking on big topics, but it doesn’t really explore them with any depth. Maybe they’ll deal with their grandsons’ identity over time. But thus far...is the worry about him being beaten up in school really the main issue?

More to the point...the show reflects a lot of Barr’s vapidity in how it deals with people who are “othered” by society. Roseanne rails at PC culture and laughs at tv shows about showing people of other races as “just like us.” But then offers no more than the same “just like us” platitudes when supposedly delving into “issues.” If she’s going to accuse the rest of the world of indulging in cliche...shouldn’t her show attempt to offer more?
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Dr Markus
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Re: Roseanne

Postby Dr Markus » 15 May 2018, 20:55

I think you're expecting too much from this show davy. I think they're pretty much approaching topics like they did in the 90s. When DJ refused to play with a little black girl, it was covered and dealt with in 5 minutes. I think it was praised too for it. Some topics will be dealt with over a few episodes, but some topics don't need that.
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: Roseanne

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 16 May 2018, 01:36

Dr Markus wrote:I think you're expecting too much from this show davy. I think they're pretty much approaching topics like they did in the 90s. When DJ refused to play with a little black girl, it was covered and dealt with in 5 minutes. I think it was praised too for it. Some topics will be dealt with over a few episodes, but some topics don't need that.


I don’t think the 90’s show handled “issues” all that well either. But they didn’t have the same pretense of being “about” issues - which is essentially my argument.

The old show was about a family. Every once in a while the family was pushed to acknowledge someone different than themselves. But that was a small part of what the show was. Now the show thinks it is about “sacred cows” - and they’ve crammed it to the gills with lots of opportunities for the Connors to comment on our culture...something they don’t actually do well.

So great...Roseanne loves her African-American granddaughter and gender-fluid grandson. Wonderful. But nobody on the show is ever going to push her to account for the fact that she made a point of having voted to marginalize people like her grandchildren. Nor is she going to stop mocking anyone who suggests that we think about how we treat people like them. She acknowledges that people might beat them up at school - but they should just shut up until she decides they are individually worthy of caring about.
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Dr Markus
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Re: Roseanne

Postby Dr Markus » 17 May 2018, 11:03

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
I don’t think the 90’s show handled “issues” all that well either. But they didn’t have the same pretense of being “about” issues - which is essentially my argument.


Disagree with the first part, but you're probably right about they didn’t have the same pretense of being “about” issues

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:The old show was about a family. Every once in a while the family was pushed to acknowledge someone different than themselves. But that was a small part of what the show was. Now the show thinks it is about “sacred cows” - and they’ve crammed it to the gills with lots of opportunities for the Connors to comment on our culture...something they don’t actually do well.

Agreed

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:So great...Roseanne loves her African-American granddaughter and gender-fluid grandson. Wonderful. But nobody on the show is ever going to push her to account for the fact that she made a point of having voted to marginalize people like her grandchildren. Nor is she going to stop mocking anyone who suggests that we think about how we treat people like them. She acknowledges that people might beat them up at school - but they should just shut up until she decides they are individually worthy of caring about.


I think you're being too hard on them if i'm being honest. Especially the last sentence. If anything, the show is suggesting that you live your life the way you want, I might not agree with it, but it doesn't mean we just can't get on with each other regardless. Family member or not. I mean look at the people behind it, Whitney cummings, you're telling me she's right wing or a Trump supporter?
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: Roseanne

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 17 May 2018, 17:01

I suspect that the difference in our reactions to the show have something to do with the fact that you see “I might not agree with it, but it doesn't mean we just can't get on with each other regardless“ as a reasonable position to take regarding another’s identity and I don’t.
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Re: Roseanne

Postby Dr Markus » 17 May 2018, 17:12

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:I suspect that the difference in our reactions to the show have something to do with the fact that you see “I might not agree with it, but it doesn't mean we just can't get on with each other regardless“ as a reasonable position to take regarding another’s identity and I don’t.


True, Fair enough.
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Re: Roseanne

Postby sneelock » 17 May 2018, 17:26

I haven't watched very many but I certainly Like it more than Davey. still, I think his remarks are pretty fair.
the old show had lots of scenes of people knocking on Roseanne's door or coming up to her with politics and her sassing at them. she had a bullshit detector and didn't take any bullshit.

well, not only do I feel like something happened to HER b.s. detector - I think mine is working overtime. I love the cast and they still hire good writers. I think they are still making entertaining shows. however, her support of this president who calls places "shitholes" and people "animals" is emphasizing issues of diversity & inclusion that, in my opinion, have FUCK ALL to do with what that guy and his supporters are actually doing. it seems to me they are doing exactly the oppsite and in no small way. In fact, I think you could make a case that this is a sort of creative affirmative action that people who support that guy are really caring and progressive people. maybe some are? well, they would have to be blind to some pretty ghastly stuff but I suppose it could happen.

Not only do I think her b.s. detector is broke - I think she's selling a vision that some people want to have about themselves without really including or diversifying even a little bit. to sum up -- Intentional or not, I think this is a view of "Trump's America" that is fundamentally dishonest and makes people feel good about themselves for caring about things they don't really seem to care about based on what they do.

I like it because it's funny but I do occasionally detect the powerful & unmistakable odor of mendacity.
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