The Last Jedi

..and why not?
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Copehead
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Copehead » 21 Dec 2017, 08:21

Sneelock wrote:I think the director is handling the online backlash pretty well.
http://www.businessinsider.com/star-war ... sh-2017-12


Millions of casual fans will be happy with 2.5 hours of entertainment.

No nerd fan is going to ever be happy with anything other than a Star Wars film built to his own specifications.

The film has good critical reviews because most critics will be fans of film not Star wars.

The Star Wars fan sub culture are pretty much guaranteed to hate anything produced by the franchise for ever because bitching about shit is so much more fun than saying you enjoyed and if you can show how deep into the minutiae of the Star Wars universe you are to fellow nerds so much the better.

If you can say you hate it because Princess Leia's Rebel regalia is slightly the wrong shade of puce compared to that in Episode 4 you probably win the internet

That is the nature of this extreme fandom we have for entertainment ephemera these days
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Pansy Puff » 21 Dec 2017, 08:40

I'm a Star Wars nerd and I liked it a lot!
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Jeemo » 21 Dec 2017, 08:55

i saw it last night. it ticked most of the boxes, too lomg though.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Jeemo » 21 Dec 2017, 08:56

and the 12 year old loved it. job done.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Goat Boy » 21 Dec 2017, 10:04

Sneelock wrote:Harlan Ellison called "Star Wars" fans idiots when it was new because of the explosions in space.
I suppose we are seeing the Force doing things we haven't seen it do before and I guess that really bothers some people.


It bothered me. Expanding force powers was always going to be one of the trickier moves any director was going to attempt but I don’t think they got it right here. I can just about buy Lukes Force hologram thaaang but Leia’s spacewalk? Really?

The only Force powers Leia has previously shown is some vague telekinetic connection to Luke and that’s it. Of course in the years after Return of the Jedi you could reasonably assume that Luke had taught her some things but this was a stretch too far. To me it resembled some superhero movie. I thought it was one of the Marvel *spits on floor* moments in this movie.

Lukes force hologram I can just about by into but then it’s not entirely consistent with the old movies. If Jedi can do this why didn’t Obi-Wan use it against Vadar?

And now force ghosts can interfere in the real world too. If that’s the case why didn’t Yoda help Luke against Vadar then? Or Obi-Wan? In an early version of Return of the Jedi this idea of force ghosts using their powers in the real world existed but it was jettisoned from later versions unsurprisingly. Why? Because it’s not a very good idea. You couldn’t have Luke against Vadar and the emporer with Obi-Wan and Yoda hanging around. It had to be just Luke.

Fans will tolerate plot holes and shit like that but when it comes to fundamental Star Wars shit like this it’s different of course. I liked the fact that the Jedi weren’t supermen back in the day. I think in this movie they have crossed over into something different and it’s not consistent with what has come before.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Pansy Puff » 21 Dec 2017, 10:50

Goat Boy wrote:
Lukes force hologram I can just about by into but then it’s not entirely consistent with the old movies. If Jedi can do this why didn’t Obi-Wan use it against Vadar?

And now force ghosts can interfere in the real world too. If that’s the case why didn’t Yoda help Luke against Vadar then? Or Obi-Wan? In an early version of Return of the Jedi this idea of force ghosts using their powers in the real world existed but it was jettisoned from later versions unsurprisingly. Why? Because it’s not a very good idea. You couldn’t have Luke against Vadar and the emporer with Obi-Wan and Yoda hanging around. It had to be just Luke.


Don't forget that Qui-Gon Jinn taught Yoda how to materialise as a force ghost. Before that Yoda didn't know how to do it so it is totally reasonable that Luke discovered or developed new ways to use the force over a period of (what?) 20 years.
I agree about Leia, but I was actually pleased that this wasn't her death scene.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Goat Boy » 21 Dec 2017, 11:08

Oh I've forgotten everything about the prequels!
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby PENK » 21 Dec 2017, 11:13

Copehead wrote:
Sneelock wrote:I think the director is handling the online backlash pretty well.
http://www.businessinsider.com/star-war ... sh-2017-12


Millions of casual fans will be happy with 2.5 hours of entertainment.

No nerd fan is going to ever be happy with anything other than a Star Wars film built to his own specifications.

The film has good critical reviews because most critics will be fans of film not Star wars.

The Star Wars fan sub culture are pretty much guaranteed to hate anything produced by the franchise for ever because bitching about shit is so much more fun than saying you enjoyed and if you can show how deep into the minutiae of the Star Wars universe you are to fellow nerds so much the better.

If you can say you hate it because Princess Leia's Rebel regalia is slightly the wrong shade of puce compared to that in Episode 4 you probably win the internet

That is the nature of this extreme fandom we have for entertainment ephemera these days


I think it's wrong to assume that all the people who are not satisfied with the film are Star Wars nerds angry because they killed off Luke or the bad guy isn't totally evil. I think there are a lot of more casual fans/viewers like myself who take issues with massive plot holes like the big evil villain apparently being the most powerful Force user ever but having come from nowhere and getting killed in a way that even a child could have seen coming, or the stupid fucking c*s*n* bit which was a whole lot of wasted Young James Bond meets I don't know, Paw Patrol or something just to make a vague point about the machinery of war or Leia just fucking waking up in space and flying into the fucking spaceship. Seriously, Leia just fucking waking up in space and flying into the fucking spaceship. That was bloody stupid whichever angle you're coming at the film from!

Still, there were good parts. I liked the Rey-Ren who will go dark, who will beat their urges bit even though I thought that for more impact the roles should have been switched for the final film. The Poe mutiny subplot was a very clever bit of distraction despite leading to the stupid fucking c*s*n* bit. And most of the action scenes were good. The amazing Force powers of Luke etc were just, well, Force powers and they've always been, shall we say, "adaptable to the filmmaker's needs".

I enjoyed the film in parts but it was still a bit of a letdown. Not because of what they did with the Star Wars mythology, just because as a film there were parts that were clearly botched, misguided or plain rubbish.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Toby » 21 Dec 2017, 11:20

I like the fact that Johnson has pretty much ended the last vestiges of the OT. We have a new story now.

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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Goat Boy » 21 Dec 2017, 11:45

The only way they'll truly break away will be with the new trilogy.

I'm ok with that. For this trilogy it's about balancing the old with the new. The first movie didn't have enough of the latter. The new one has new stuff but not of all it works.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 21 Dec 2017, 13:36

What gets me is the people that argue that it has to be good look at the money it generated. Well unless you're a first class hacker, of course you have to pay to see it to get your own opinion. It's a false marker of how good the makers think it is.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Goat Boy » 21 Dec 2017, 14:05

PENK wrote:
Copehead wrote:
Sneelock wrote:I think the director is handling the online backlash pretty well.
http://www.businessinsider.com/star-war ... sh-2017-12


Millions of casual fans will be happy with 2.5 hours of entertainment.

No nerd fan is going to ever be happy with anything other than a Star Wars film built to his own specifications.

The film has good critical reviews because most critics will be fans of film not Star wars.

The Star Wars fan sub culture are pretty much guaranteed to hate anything produced by the franchise for ever because bitching about shit is so much more fun than saying you enjoyed and if you can show how deep into the minutiae of the Star Wars universe you are to fellow nerds so much the better.

If you can say you hate it because Princess Leia's Rebel regalia is slightly the wrong shade of puce compared to that in Episode 4 you probably win the internet

That is the nature of this extreme fandom we have for entertainment ephemera these days


I think it's wrong to assume that all the people who are not satisfied with the film are Star Wars nerds angry because they killed off Luke or the bad guy isn't totally evil. I think there are a lot of more casual fans/viewers like myself who take issues with massive plot holes like the big evil villain apparently being the most powerful Force user ever but having come from nowhere and getting killed in a way that even a child could have seen coming,


I would have liked some backstory perhaps. Maybe Yoda warning Luke about Snoke or some shit. Perhaps a flashback. It would have been cool if Yoda was aware of Snoke and knew why he had those scars for example and then told Luke what happened.

When I thought about Snokes death it bothered me less because it was in keeping with what Luke had said about the Jedi. Their arrogance, their hubris, their failures etc. Snokes arrogance led to his downfall. He thought he had it all worked out but he didn't. At least thematically his sudden death was tied to this. I liked that. Similarly I liked the fact that Reys parents are nobodies. That didn't feel like a macguffin, more a neat way of expanding the force past the tired Skywalker family thing and besides, anything else would be too contrived - grandaughter of Obi-Wan? Ditto Snokes backstory if it was linked too heavily the Emperor or Vadar.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby ORORORO » 21 Dec 2017, 14:07

The Great Defector wrote:What gets me is the people that argue that it has to be good look at the money it generated. Well unless you're a first class hacker, of course you have to pay to see it to get your own opinion. It's a false marker of how good the makers think it is.


:?
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Jeemo » 21 Dec 2017, 14:29

YOU BLOODY STUPID PAIR OF BUGGERS wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:What gets me is the people that argue that it has to be good look at the money it generated. Well unless you're a first class hacker, of course you have to pay to see it to get your own opinion. It's a false marker of how good the makers think it is.


:?


Christ sake, don't set him off.....
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 21 Dec 2017, 14:30

YOU BLOODY STUPID PAIR OF BUGGERS wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:What gets me is the people that argue that it has to be good look at the money it generated. Well unless you're a first class hacker, of course you have to pay to see it to get your own opinion. It's a false marker of how good the makers think it is.


:?



They're using the money they've made as a sign that the film was a total success when reviews would say otherwise.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Pansy Puff » 21 Dec 2017, 16:26

The Great Defector wrote:
YOU BLOODY STUPID PAIR OF BUGGERS wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:What gets me is the people that argue that it has to be good look at the money it generated. Well unless you're a first class hacker, of course you have to pay to see it to get your own opinion. It's a false marker of how good the makers think it is.


:?



They're using the money they've made as a sign that the film was a total success when reviews would say otherwise.

Which reviews? The overwhelmingly positive ones?
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Matt Wilson » 21 Dec 2017, 16:38

Maybe in Ireland, the critics didn't like it.

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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Pansy Puff » 21 Dec 2017, 16:47

Image
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 21 Dec 2017, 17:24

Darryl Strawberry wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:
YOU BLOODY STUPID PAIR OF BUGGERS wrote:
:?



They're using the money they've made as a sign that the film was a total success when reviews would say otherwise.

Which reviews? The overwhelmingly positive ones?



Well obviously they weren't all overwhelmingly positive otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it. You should research the reaction to it on t'internet by film critics and fans alike before you respond. You would be doing yourself a favor.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby ORORORO » 21 Dec 2017, 17:26

The Great Defector wrote:What gets me is the people that argue that it has to be good look at the money it generated. Well unless you're a first class hacker, of course you have to pay to see it to get your own opinion. It's a false marker of how good the makers think it is.
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