The Last Jedi

..and why not?
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sneelock
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby sneelock » 18 Dec 2017, 17:58

The Great Defector wrote: Would love to know what Lucas would have done.


more Jar-Jar!!!
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Dr Markus
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 18 Dec 2017, 18:02

Sneelock wrote:
The Great Defector wrote: Would love to know what Lucas would have done.


more Jar-Jar!!!


Don't even utter his name sir!
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby WG Kaspar » 18 Dec 2017, 18:15

The Great Defector wrote:The dude that wrote AND directed it directed Looper and nothing else of note.

I take it you haven't seen The Brothers Bloom. You should.
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Dr Markus
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 18 Dec 2017, 18:19

I have not, though reading the plot (and there is directors/writers able to jump from one genre to another) it doesn't change my mind that he shouldn't have gotten the job, or at least sacked after he handed in the script.
Last edited by Dr Markus on 18 Dec 2017, 18:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby K » 18 Dec 2017, 18:21

Whenever I read Markus moaning about Driver or Johnson I think of this...
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PENK
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby PENK » 18 Dec 2017, 18:26

The Great Defector wrote:The dude that wrote AND directed it directed Looper and nothing else of note.


He wrote and directed Brick which was one of the most acclaimed indie films of the last decade and also directed three of the strongest and most important episodes of Breaking Bad.
And as Hollywood sci-fi goes Looper was much more thoughtful and impressive than most of what is churned out these days.

I wasn’t that keen on The Last Jedi but to write off Johnson as a nobody is ignorant.
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Dr Markus
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 18 Dec 2017, 18:32

PENK wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:The dude that wrote AND directed it directed Looper and nothing else of note.


He wrote and directed Brick which was one of the most acclaimed indie films of the last decade and also directed three of the strongest and most important episodes of Breaking Bad.
And as Hollywood sci-fi goes Looper was much more thoughtful and impressive than most of what is churned out these days.

I wasn’t that keen on The Last Jedi but to write off Johnson as a nobody is ignorant.


I didn't write him off as nobody, just the wrong person for this gig. I bet a lot of people said "Who?" when his name was mentioned.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby nev gash » 18 Dec 2017, 19:02

Darryl Strawberry wrote:Whenever I see a man with a full head of hair I think of this...
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby sneelock » 18 Dec 2017, 19:08

The Great Defector wrote:I didn't write him off as nobody, just the wrong person for this gig. I bet a lot of people said "Who?" when his name was mentioned.



but, isn't that par for the course with big franchise movies? I mean, Sam Mendes on Bond and Tarantino's Star Trek seem like exceptions rather than the rule. I think producers want capable directors but, with a high profile guy like Edgar Wright on 'Ant Man' ,will give them the boot if they go too far off the reservation.

I think Johnson's good reviews for this one are mainly because our press is still in the habit of laying credit or blame on directors. Abrams may have been a simpatico producer but I'll bet him and Disney's top management were still calling the shots.
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Dr Markus
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 18 Dec 2017, 19:20

True, I did say "(and there is directors/writers able to jump from one genre to another)". Just so we're clear, I think HE was the wrong choice. Jackson got LOTR after not a lot of big time movies, Sam Raimi got the Spider-Man gig, both of which did great jobs (except for Spider-Man 3, that was shit). Johnson just did a terrible job at it, and nothing really in his catalogue suggests why he was chosen. Raimi is a massive Spider-Man fan, and Jackson is a massive LOTR fan. At least they have that going for them.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby sneelock » 18 Dec 2017, 19:28

well, I liked "Last Jedi" & "Looper" a lot better than you. I think producers like directors they feel like they can talk to. the first Star Wars sequels had two very capable directors with no real genre pedigree. Irv Kirshner turned out to be a good choice & Richard Marquand must have done at least okay. I remember standing in line to see "Return of the Jedi" and the loudest complainers in line were also boasting of seeing it for the second or third time. I guess they thought this fact gave their opinion more merit. maybe it did.

I try my best to keep my expectations in the trunk of my car when I see a sequel but this is hard to do. I let them out later and then we compare notes. usually the expectations don't really change but sometimes I wonder why I held them as firmly as I did.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby algroth » 18 Dec 2017, 22:16

The Great Defector wrote:The dude that wrote AND directed it directed Looper and nothing else of note. There was probably script doctors paid to keep their names off the credits but how the fuck did he get the job? Looper wasn't that great. He's doing the next one too? :shock: Apparently Lucas's version or idea for these movies was totally different, and Disney told him "thanks but no thanks, we got this". Would love to know what Lucas would have done.


Lucas was quite pleased with The Last Jedi actually, from what I've heard. Also, Johnson made Brick and directed some of the best episodes of Breaking Bad, so he's got that going for him. To be honest the whole endeavour feels so studio-compromised that I can't really say if it's a problem with his writing or if it'd been better/worse with another writer involved, but from the perspective of his directorial vision I think he has a great eye and sensibility. There are moments of brilliance in this film, but they exist in this mire of utterly poor narrative decisions.

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Dr Markus
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 18 Dec 2017, 22:20

Aye I read Lucas liked it, mentioned that earlier. Still like to know what his ideas were.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby sneelock » 19 Dec 2017, 00:04

algroth wrote: utterly poor narrative decisions.

true! But... STAR WARS!!!!!
they're always a little too clunky, a little too cutsey, a little too this & that.
I'm surprised at the social media meltdown over it. I think it's a VERY pleasant way to spend a couple of hours.
it must be said, as always, the acting lifts it all up a notch - for me anyway.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Belle Lettre » 19 Dec 2017, 07:01

I feel certain I shall enjoy it now.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Goat Boy » 19 Dec 2017, 09:38

I tried writing something longer but kept getting locked out.

I think there are some bad misjudgements here. Worryingly I can really see the influence of Disney and Marvel.

If Rhian Johnson is the shit hot young director who's going to take these movies on then good luck to him but based on this I would say I'm unconvinced as to whether he is the best person for the job.
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algroth
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby algroth » 19 Dec 2017, 14:41

Sneelock wrote:
algroth wrote: utterly poor narrative decisions.

true! But... STAR WARS!!!!!
they're always a little too clunky, a little too cutsey, a little too this & that.
I'm surprised at the social media meltdown over it. I think it's a VERY pleasant way to spend a couple of hours.
it must be said, as always, the acting lifts it all up a notch - for me anyway.

I would criticize two things here: firstly I don't see why a new film in a given saga ought to strive to imitate the failures of its predecessors instead of correcting or improving on them, so for me the idea that "well, the others did X too!" doesn't really hold much water; but then, perhaps more importantly I feel that in the better Star Wars films so far, sure, there may have been a few deus ex machinas about, but the narrative structure was always solid and there was some kind of arc, not least thanks to their rather dilligent adherence to Campbell's monomyth and so on. There was no such foundation in this film, I felt, where characters beyond Poe Dameron didn't really seem to move an inch and huge diversions were taken for seemingly no reason whatsoever. The twists here came more like rug-pulls and made the whole story come across as fickle, like it wasn't ever sure where it wanted to go. And what are we left with exactly, in the end of it all? I feel at this point that Episode IX will have to be another course-correction as this one seemed to be of the past film, simply because I cannot picture a satisfying conclusion with whatever bits of story and characters we're left with at the end of The Last Jedi, quite frankly.

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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby sneelock » 19 Dec 2017, 19:53

I think the director is handling the online backlash pretty well.
http://www.businessinsider.com/star-war ... sh-2017-12
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Matt Wilson » 20 Dec 2017, 17:09

I liked it. I don't get the reaction of those who enjoyed The Force Awakens but don't dig this one. Both of them very much pay homage to episode four. I could point out at least three scenes in both The Last Jedi and Force Awakens which are just rewrites of scenes in the original Star Wars. I hope that the new trilogy that is being written has a few more original ideas though, and isn't so much in awe (story-wise) of episodes 4 - 6. But then, if everything is totally new, then the fans will complain that it's too different from previous Star Wars films so these writers really can't win.

Goldwax has a post on Facebook where people complain about flaws in science like when bombs dropped from ships in space fall down and explode, and I brought up the whole Leia in space scene - so there are definitely some questionable things in the new film where a proper suspension of disbelief is required. But overall, I still enjoyed it. Seeing it in 3D on an IMAX screen helps.

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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby sneelock » 20 Dec 2017, 17:19

Harlan Ellison called "Star Wars" fans idiots when it was new because of the explosions in space.
I suppose we are seeing the Force doing things we haven't seen it do before and I guess that really bothers some people.
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