The Last Jedi

..and why not?
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Dr Markus
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 21 Dec 2017, 17:28

YOU BLOODY STUPID PAIR OF BUGGERS wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:What gets me is the people that argue that it has to be good look at the money it generated. Well unless you're a first class hacker, of course you have to pay to see it to get your own opinion. It's a false marker of how good the makers think it is.


Basically if a film, ANY film, makes a shitload of money, does that automatically make it good in terms of story etc? I'm sure Disney are more interested in the money side than the story of the film. Therefore they will think it's a success because of the profits. However it's shit film no matter how much money they made.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Pansy Puff » 21 Dec 2017, 17:32

Hold the newsreader's nose squarely, waiter, or friendly milk will countermand my trousers
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 21 Dec 2017, 17:33

Nuff said really.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Goat Boy » 21 Dec 2017, 17:34

The Great Defector wrote:
Darryl Strawberry wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:

They're using the money they've made as a sign that the film was a total success when reviews would say otherwise.

Which reviews? The overwhelmingly positive ones?



Well obviously they weren't all overwhelmingly positive otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it. You should research the reaction to it on t'internet by film critics and fans alike before you respond. You would be doing yourself a favor.


It has a 93% rating on Rotten tomatoes. Of course not every review is positive but on the whole the critic reviews have been positive and, at times, glowing.

Fan reviews are way more mixed I suspect
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 21 Dec 2017, 17:35

Goat Boy wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:
Darryl Strawberry wrote:Which reviews? The overwhelmingly positive ones?



Well obviously they weren't all overwhelmingly positive otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it. You should research the reaction to it on t'internet by film critics and fans alike before you respond. You would be doing yourself a favor.


It has a 93% rating on Rotten tomatoes. Of course not every review is positive but on the whole the critic reviews have been positive and, at times, glowing.

Fan reviews are way more mixed I suspect


I'm putting all reviews on the same level, basically fans reviews on the same par as critics. I think it's more 50/50 myself with a slight lean to positive reviews. But to say it was an out and out success is wrong I reckon.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Goat Boy » 21 Dec 2017, 17:57

Critical reviews are overwhelmingly positive. Fan reviews are harder to judge because the people who shout loudly get heard more which means the naysayers. Going on what Rhian Johnson has said the positive feedback has comfortably outweighed the negative he has received but, like I said, hard to judge and the dust needs to settle.

Disney I suspect will be giving little shits about the naysayers because I think that A. they are a minority B. They will still watch future movies regardless and C. I suspect they probably anticipated a backlash because this movie is a bit different.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Sneelock » 21 Dec 2017, 18:08

I think there might actually be a "campaign" to juke the rotten tomatoes rating. remember those people that didn't like seeing a black guy take off the stormtrooper helmet in the Force Awakens preview? those guys.

there are plenty of reasons not to like the film as we've seen in this thread. some people have a weird hobby of trying to affect the popularity of things - like when "IT" opened. some people see "strong women characters" as "anti-male". I know it sounds stupid but the people who talk this way don't seem to think so and I think they try to leave a mark on popular culture with all the bells and whistles social media provides.

it's a theory. not that it really matters. it's just a movie. it either makes a black hole full of money or it doesn't.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Jeemo » 21 Dec 2017, 18:22

The Great Defector wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:

Well obviously they weren't all overwhelmingly positive otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it. You should research the reaction to it on t'internet by film critics and fans alike before you respond. You would be doing yourself a favor.


It has a 93% rating on Rotten tomatoes. Of course not every review is positive but on the whole the critic reviews have been positive and, at times, glowing.

Fan reviews are way more mixed I suspect


I'm putting all reviews on the same level, basically fans reviews on the same par as critics. I think it's more 50/50 myself with a slight lean to positive reviews. But to say it was an out and out success is wrong I reckon.



i thought the split was more 58/48.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Matt Wilson » 21 Dec 2017, 18:23

Indeed. Everything gets mixed reviews nowadays anyway. There's always going to be naysayers. This is the eighth film in the series, ninth if you count Rogue One. The chances of a new Star Wars being considered as good as episodes 4 and 5 are virtually nil. You get what you get. These films are not made with middle aged people in mind anyway. Just look at the new characters - all younger, with Harrison Ford being killed off in the last one, Luke serving his purpose and then drifting off into the Force, and the death of Carrie Fisher (just how are they going to handle that one in the next movie, I wonder?); it's clear the powers-that-be are getting rid of the old and making way for the new. I doubt they're really thinking too much about pleasing people our age anymore. Disney wants new fans to keep the franchise going, and with the booming box office, it appears to be working.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Sneelock » 21 Dec 2017, 18:29

that's funny because I thought sort of the opposite about it. part of what I liked about it was that the old people mattered!
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Sneelock » 21 Dec 2017, 18:29

but, of course you are right about newer characters for newer fans.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby LMG » 21 Dec 2017, 20:31

I loved it.

Thought it was absolutely terrific.

Two things that compounded my pleasure were (1) that I always loved Star Wars most when it revelled in its Flash Gordon/Princess of Mars influences - eg that your ensemble cast gets split up, has preposterous adventures, and then gets reunited in suspiciously coincidental fashion before some amazing cliffhanger sends them all off again.

I have always been less impressed by the whole Jedi/Samurai influenced stuff, which I find a bit ponderous. That's why I loved Han Solo's sending up of the Force in the previous film 'THAT'S NOT how the Force works!', and in The Last Jedi the revelation that Luke was essentially arrogant, bitter and cack-handed, and he never became the Big Jedi that was anticipated in the first trilogy. In fact, I read the non-canon novel Splinter In The Mind's Eye in between the first two films, where there was no hint of Luke and Leia being siblings, or Luke being anything other than a Rebellion stalwart with a gifted mentor to help him kick ass more effectively.

The other thing was seeing the movie in John Boyega's local cinema in Peckham, where apparently he used to turn up to showings of The Force Awakens to big it up with fans (and may do again for all I know). The audience rapture which greeted his screen return was heartwarming, as was the ovation that greeted the end of the film.

I will need to see it again, but this is easily my third favourite of the eleven Star Wars movies thus far, possibly even second. My hopes are raised that the next one might even measure up to, and dare I hope even replace or topple my first all-time favourite, Ewoks: The Battle for Endor.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Geezee » 22 Dec 2017, 07:31

Saw it last night and I have a similar reaction to the first one where I generally felt "it's really good, I just wish..."

In the first one I really I liked the characters and general set-up but disliked the fact that so many plot elements were essentially rewrites of the first movie. In this one, again I really liked alot of the characters, fight scenes and just the general flow of the movie...I loved everything about Leia in the movie, and i had tears in my eyes at the reunion with Luke. I even liked the space walking- it was such a weird, crazy scene and i liked it because of that. Like others I found the Rey-Ren interactions really very compelling, and the showdown with Snoke - or actually more accurately the showdown with the red guards - was simply beautiful.

but there were a few things that were just very weak or unnecessary, most of which has already been picked up on here. The biggest issue for me is Poe - he fcks up, completely, twice, and that is essentially his entire contribution to the movie. First, he disobeys the order from Leia and puts them in the predicament that sets up the whole movie, and then he leads a ridiculous mutiny that again undermines the whole getout plan. Hundreds or thousands of rebels are killed as a result. But Poe is just dismissed by both Leia and her second-in-command as a loveable rogue..."oh that Poe". And related to this, as others have already commented, the whole side-plot where they escaped to the gambling colony was totally unnecessary - it was a false mission, built on Poe's stupidity, and only served to bring Del Toro's betrayal, again leading to hundreds dying, to the fore.And while I really liked the Rose character, her intervention to save Finn didn't seem to make sense - she effectively destroyed what looked like a plan that would've worked to destroy that big blaster. if she had some inside knowledge that what he was about to do wouldn't work, that's fine - but her rationale of "we save the ones we love" didn't make sense.
I really loved the fact that Leia lives, i feel it was a pretty brave decision, a great tribute to her and her character - although yes god knows how they'll resolve that.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 22 Dec 2017, 11:35

Goat Boy wrote:It has a 93% rating on Rotten tomatoes. Of course not every review is positive but on the whole the critic reviews have been positive and, at times, glowing.

Fan reviews are way more mixed I suspect


Isn't the fan review in the 40's though?
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 22 Dec 2017, 11:40

I think the film has to be taken 2 different ways, a relaunch hoping to attract new viewers and continuation of the original story. As a stand alone film as the 2nd in the relaunch of the franchise it's ok. However has the continuation of the original story, it's just shite. I think the reviews should be thought of in that way. I'm obviously for the latter in that as a continuation of the original story, it's just shite. If we could somehow find out how many of the positive reviews are from new fans/viewers I think that would be interesting.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Pansy Puff » 22 Dec 2017, 12:16

The Great Defector wrote: as a continuation of the original story, it's just shite.

I disagree, sorry. To my mind it develops the narrative of the force. I loved it. I think what you mean is, "I would have made a different film. ." I'll watch that when I get the chance.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Deebank » 22 Dec 2017, 12:21

Do they still bang on about midichlorians (or whatever they were called)?
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 22 Dec 2017, 12:21

Darryl Strawberry wrote:
The Great Defector wrote: as a continuation of the original story, it's just shite.

I disagree, sorry. To my mind it develops the narrative of the force. I loved it. I think what you mean is, "I would have made a different film. ." I'll watch that when I get the chance.


Nope, it's shite.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Pansy Puff » 22 Dec 2017, 12:28

The Great Defector wrote:
Darryl Strawberry wrote:
The Great Defector wrote: as a continuation of the original story, it's just shite.

I disagree, sorry. To my mind it develops the narrative of the force. I loved it. I think what you mean is, "I would have made a different film. ." I'll watch that when I get the chance.


Nope, it's shite.

The one you wrote? Give it a chance.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 22 Dec 2017, 12:44

Darryl Strawberry wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:
Darryl Strawberry wrote:I disagree, sorry. To my mind it develops the narrative of the force. I loved it. I think what you mean is, "I would have made a different film. ." I'll watch that when I get the chance.


Nope, it's shite.

The one you wrote? Give it a chance.


It's the film business the argument of "if you can do better, then go ahead" is just a cheap comeback. Johnson doesn't seem to care and i'm pretty sure he wouldn't come back with that response. Though I do hope you use that in your line of work when your boss or co workers question your work. " G'on, you do better then". :lol:
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