The Last Jedi

..and why not?
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Darkness_Fish
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Darkness_Fish » 13 Dec 2017, 21:14

Stormtroopers hanging around Wolverhampton council estates, drinking cider, smoking, and complaining how the lack of stability in the death star market post Brexit means there's no chance of steady jobs, it's all zero-hours contracts?
Like fast-moving clouds casting shadows against a hillside, the melody-loop shuddered with a sense of the sublime, the awful unknowable majesty of the world.

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Penk!
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Penk! » 13 Dec 2017, 21:54

I saw it this evening and it's a good four-star Star Wars film. Go see it if you like Star Wars films or exciting action films as it's a good one. Not a masterpiece though really.

There's lots of good action at the start and end and there is a more nuanced, unpredictable exploration of light and dark than previously in the series. There are however some real lulls during the middle and the ahem, "gaming establishment"/hacking subplot - though introducing the worthwhile subtext of how an ongoing conflict like this is financed and supported - is very stoopidly done with far too much of the old susp-of-disb needed.

Some more detailed comments in spoilers below:

The Ren/Rey (any coincidence that their names are so similar?) face-off was built very well and there was real tension there. I genuinely thought that we might see both characters turn, so that our sympathies were turned on their heads for the final instalment. Unfortunately, though,
the big fight scene with Snoke was an anticlimax as it was far too obvious how things were going to go down, and the character of Snoke himself was left as a bit of a McGuffin with no backstory or explanation as to where this massively powerful being had come from or why he didn't realise what Ren was going to do.
AND I thought that when Bellerin Kylo asked Rey to team up with him and rule he could have made a more convincing case about a balance of light and dark being needed.

I guess that the chance to off Snoke was the spur Bellerin Kylo needed to give in to the dark side completely and take full control of his powers. But why so foolish and focused on Skywalker at the end?

I kept expecting Laura Dern to turn round and go "fuck you Dameron".

I thought the absence of any real major revelations or surprises meant that the film had less of an impact. Snoke being apparently just some guy,
Rey being just some girl, etc.

A few good gags but some very cheesy moments too. Par for the course these days I suppose. I liked the "General Hugs" bit.

Speaking of General Hux, I enjoyed Domnhall Gleeson a lot. That kind of slightly unhinged, prissy military bastard always seems fun for actors.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby algroth » 15 Dec 2017, 07:37

The film felt a lot like a middle ground between fanfic and corporate course-correction, with the occasional moments of greatness thanks to Rian Johnson's rather poetic sensibility. But by and large, while I enjoyed it, I'm feeling like the more I think about it the more problematic I find it. It is that weird kind of film that seems to at once ostentate how it's trying to do things differently and yet where every 'surprise' or twist seems to have been thought so as to meet the audience's criticisms to The Force Awakens. Rey's parents better not be Skywalkers? Sure, it was a red herring all along! Snoke not that interesting a villain? Well, why don't we kill him off? Kylo Ren too similar to Vader? Well, let's break that mask, shall we? Then we also get a whole bunch of detours to other places that don't seem to serve much purpose in developing the characters or themes, while Luke's desertion of the Force does feel oddly phony, considering how all the talk of "balance" never leads to creating any sort of balance but redefining a new generation of good Jedi and bad Sith. It's the kind of film that really makes me wonder if Disney ever had an idea for the trilogy beyond wanting to make a Star Wars trilogy, because this whole act surely felt improvised.

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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby never/ever » 15 Dec 2017, 10:10

After the second viewing today I have now a bit time to elaborate more on my initial reaction. My phone is hardly a typewriter, so, belatedly, a more complete response. I still believe it is a good looking film working off a bad premisse (a rehash of the first trilogy- an equally weird choice after the retelling of the pre-Skywalker/Vader storyline in the second trilogy which was roundly questioned).

Of course it is presumptive to criticize anything but I have a vested interest in the Timeline ever since I watched the first movie 40 years ago as a 10-year old and was blown away by it. The original trilogy set in my mind a terrific foundation to build on. Obviously there are a lot of details left out in any story but the accumulation of ridiculous additions just are a bit baffling to me.Like Floating Leia in space- dafuqqq??? Skywalker's final scene where he transubstantiates into a Jedi ghostwalker with the power to physically give a token to his sister before a battle and finally disappearing in a puff of smoke- dafuqqq??? Yoda wouldn't even have thunked it if he could. Contrived to me also are the scenes with the tenuous mindlink between Ren and Rey who from a scavenger and untrained in the Jedi-way has become quite the skilled fighter after a few days on the island. BB8 coming to the rescue on several occasions seems rather a simple cop-out- how the fuck does he fire shots out of a Scout Walker? Why doesn't Luke explain why he did leave a part of a map somewhere indicating that he may have wanted to be found at some stage? I am also led to believe out of Kylo Ren's narration that he fled with other Padawan-Jedi who fled with him after his 'betrayal' by his Master- belying the Last Jedi-tag a bit. If not killed off by Ren, where are they now?

The larger issue I have is with the unevenness of the flow of the movie- the large lulls in the center-part caused by the rather stilted interaction between Luke and Ren (very British to my sensibilities!) are upended by the breathless sequence in action in the final quarter of the movie. The crazy casino-scene with its rather silly sub-plot didn't feel necessary. The lack of character development of Rey who seems to have accepted all of the newness of being a Jedi rather calmly- it hardly is being shown how Skywalker trains her or tests her skills, not even pushes in questioning her how she does it. I did like the way the audience was wrong-footed in Poe Dameron's rebellious final stance and the thwarting of Finn's suicidal mission.

It is also a shame how some potential has been sacrificed in this Empire Strikes Back-lookalike- the creepy Snoke being offed so early, the chance of giving Leia a nice send-off in battle rather than this stupid resurrection-scene in space, the non-use of Chewbacca outside of comic relief and killing off General Akbar is unforgivable, I daresay!

The main ingredients for the third course seems to be the inevitable battle between Rey and Ren with the appetizing power struggle between Hux and the new Supreme Leader creating a nice side story. What remains otherwise questioned is what happens to Leia now Carrie is gone, will Chewie and the rest of the original gang get snuffed out as well in order to make place of the new generation? Since Ren seems to have a tidy mindlink to Ren, will he now channel his grandfather to complete the special Star Wars guest-star cycle? And how much CGI can be stuffed in the final scenes which obviously has to be the battle to end all battles- considering the Rebellion has been wiped out so effectively will be quite interesting to see how they resolve that conundrum.

All in all, the movie looks like a video-game which is what the new generation of fans can relate to. As an action-movie it is well-made. It's as good as entertainment that I could get out of this franchise after all these years.
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Dr Markus
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 16 Dec 2017, 00:36

Genuinely terrible. Its like driver was challenging his inner woody Allen. Laughs in all the wrong places, Gleeson thought he was a baddie in a pantomime. I can't believe Lucas thought it was good.
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KeithPratt
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby KeithPratt » 16 Dec 2017, 22:36

It was a big ask for Rian Johnson. He had the unenviable job of basically trying to be the ESB. He had to weather the fact that one of his actors died, he had to make it Star Wars enough but push it in a new direction that means that the next film can be free of its shackles.

I think he did a great job. There were a couple of duff moments and you could see the stitching together of the plot, but otherwise he threw in some surprises and I think shed the "original trilogy" pretty much there and then. It felt like a great Star Wars film - but one that was different and nuanced enough.

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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby clive gash » 16 Dec 2017, 22:40

Underwhelming.

I didn’t think it looked anywhere as well designed as TFA.
The only outstanding setting was the ice (salt?) planet with the blood red soil and that was nearly spoilt by the reappearance of that ol’ end of Star Wars trope, the only way to destroy the massive weapon is to aim for the the outlet pipe/whatevs. You’d think by now that the Empire had suffered so many losses via that method that someone might’ve engineered a cover or something.

How’s about the slow speed spacecraft pursuit. Come on....

The entire c*s**o/Del Toro sub-plot was pointless. Is he gonna do a Lando and be a goodie next time? And another sub-cantina scene. And hints of TPM’s pod race in the space donkey races. That ending too, those kids.

The humour was too broad (has Luke been such a funster in the past?), those teats! Wasn’t this supposed to be the downer ep? Porgs and crystal foxes? Oh Mr Lucas Johnson. Gleeson is fucking awful, especially with Eddie Hitler next to him. Much too panto.

What was the point of Snoke then? Captain Phasma? Poe? I had real hopes for Oscar Isaac but he was wasted here. Fuck off BB 8 (and evil BB 8).

And Leia. Soz but Fisher was wooden and that scene :oops: How are they going to kill her off now?

The good stuff

I liked the Rey/Kylo mind-melds. Adam Driver is great in this, I hope he gets more screen time in the future, Daisy ups her game when they’re together. He’s lying to her (aka Obi Wan’s grandkid) surely.

Hamill was generally decent too, I hope it’s not the end for him.

So we get left with that threadbare Rebel army at the end. Meh, who cares about most of them or what happens next?
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby clive gash » 16 Dec 2017, 22:46

I never cared for Ackbar, it was his (and the Ewok’s/Jabba’s crowd) input that soured me on ROTJ, but what an odd way to get rid of him.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby clive gash » 16 Dec 2017, 23:07

Spunk
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Diamond Dog wrote:...it quite clearly hit the target with you and your nonce...

...a multitude of innuendo and hearsay...

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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby northernsky » 18 Dec 2017, 13:17

I thought it was deeply problematic, and though I appreciated the attempt to be more ambitious than The Force Awakens, I didn't enjoy it nearly as much. A number of fairly intriguing questions posed by its predecessor were poorly or perfunctorily resolved. But what was more startling was how this film cut the legs from under itself: the whole Finn/Rose subplot was not only protracted and tedious but rendered almost entirely redundant by parallel developments. And within that subplot, the hologram appearance of the bug-eyed creature from TFA - who I'd forgotten in the intervening years - passing on irrelevant information was completely baffling.

I enjoyed both opening and closing battles and the Kylo/Snoke/Rey confrontation. I enjoyed the designs, apart from Snoke's Hugh Hefner smoking robe. I enjoyed Hamill's performance. I enjoyed the infinite procession of Reys. And I admit that Driver elevated every scene he was in! I also liked the jokes, including Gleeson peevishly repeating Ren's orders.

But - genuinely surprised by the almost universal positivity among critics. The public seems far less convinced.

Leia: I can well understand that they wanted to use all of Carrie Fisher's completed scenes, BUT: given the circumstances, it surely would have made a more worthy final act for Leia to do what Laura Dern's character did? Or indeed, to be killed in the opening battle, whether her son did the deed or refused.

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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Fireplug » 18 Dec 2017, 13:21

Shit sandwich.

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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Sneelock » 18 Dec 2017, 17:17

after about ten minutes of relative quiet I surprised myself by raising my voice in the parking lot and yelling "Wow, that was great!"
I can sit around and talk about things I wish had been different but that's what fans do. the fact of the matter is that I found it VERY satisfying.
I could have turned around and watched it again immediately.

this is the first of the "Disney" batch I've seen in a theater and that might have something to do with me having the little tiny hairs all erect on my arms. I'm glad we got out to see it. I think it's a sequel that gives you what you want and something you either didn't want or didn't know you wanted.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 18 Dec 2017, 17:50

The dude that wrote AND directed it directed Looper and nothing else of note. There was probably script doctors paid to keep their names off the credits but how the fuck did he get the job? Looper wasn't that great. He's doing the next one too? :shock: Apparently Lucas's version or idea for these movies was totally different, and Disney told him "thanks but no thanks, we got this". Would love to know what Lucas would have done.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Sneelock » 18 Dec 2017, 17:58

The Great Defector wrote: Would love to know what Lucas would have done.


more Jar-Jar!!!
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 18 Dec 2017, 18:02

Sneelock wrote:
The Great Defector wrote: Would love to know what Lucas would have done.


more Jar-Jar!!!


Don't even utter his name sir!
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby WG Kaspar » 18 Dec 2017, 18:15

The Great Defector wrote:The dude that wrote AND directed it directed Looper and nothing else of note.

I take it you haven't seen The Brothers Bloom. You should.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 18 Dec 2017, 18:19

I have not, though reading the plot (and there is directors/writers able to jump from one genre to another) it doesn't change my mind that he shouldn't have gotten the job, or at least sacked after he handed in the script.
Last edited by Dr Markus on 18 Dec 2017, 18:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Penk! » 18 Dec 2017, 18:26

The Great Defector wrote:The dude that wrote AND directed it directed Looper and nothing else of note.


He wrote and directed Brick which was one of the most acclaimed indie films of the last decade and also directed three of the strongest and most important episodes of Breaking Bad.
And as Hollywood sci-fi goes Looper was much more thoughtful and impressive than most of what is churned out these days.

I wasn’t that keen on The Last Jedi but to write off Johnson as a nobody is ignorant.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr Markus » 18 Dec 2017, 18:32

PENK wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:The dude that wrote AND directed it directed Looper and nothing else of note.


He wrote and directed Brick which was one of the most acclaimed indie films of the last decade and also directed three of the strongest and most important episodes of Breaking Bad.
And as Hollywood sci-fi goes Looper was much more thoughtful and impressive than most of what is churned out these days.

I wasn’t that keen on The Last Jedi but to write off Johnson as a nobody is ignorant.


I didn't write him off as nobody, just the wrong person for this gig. I bet a lot of people said "Who?" when his name was mentioned.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby clive gash » 18 Dec 2017, 19:02

Darryl Strawberry wrote:Whenever I see a man with a full head of hair I think of this...
Image
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Diamond Dog wrote:...it quite clearly hit the target with you and your nonce...

...a multitude of innuendo and hearsay...

...I'm producing facts here...


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