Twin Peaks season 3

..and why not?
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Goat Boy » 07 Sep 2017, 13:26

"Fuck you David Lynch!!!"
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Goat Boy » 07 Sep 2017, 13:31

PENK wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:I feel you. I felt totally bummed out by the ending initially and still do to a degree. I get why fans might feel like it's a fuck you. I think the ending, as brutal and anti-climatic as it felt at the time is particularly haunting and powerful though. Just not in the way I would like but, hey, you know. I don't feel that this has negated the original show either but I can understand why some might feel that.


I thought that the very final scene was incredible, actually.

The last episode did sum up the series, with mystery and darkness (Coop and Diane's creepy motel sex), long boring stretches (driving and driving and driving), red herrings (are they being followed?) and terrifying beauty (the ending).

It was just that, well, as nice as the "Coop and Laura are now in this alternate reality created by his saving her in the first place" resolution is, there are still some inconsistencies, unanswered questions and loose threads. And though we can never get back what was lost, surely getting some kind of real closure is not too much to ask?


Well it's the demands of the audience against Lynch and Frosts vision and in that battle it is always going to come down on the Lynch side. The point about good versus evil being an ongoing story demands that there is no real closure I think.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby The Great Defector » 07 Sep 2017, 13:31

I think the episode 8 is my favorite. Though I think that's just because it was so beautiful shot.
.....on another note did anyone else miss Laura's name being called before she screamed? I missed it.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Goat Boy » 07 Sep 2017, 13:52

The Great Defector wrote:I think the episode 8 is my favorite. Though I think that's just because it was so beautiful shot.
.....on another note did anyone else miss Laura's name being called before she screamed? I missed it.


8 was wonderful. The opening double bill was outrageous. The stretch from roughly 11 to the end was fantastic though. I need to watch it all over again and reassess.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby The Great Defector » 07 Sep 2017, 13:57

Goat Boy wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:I think the episode 8 is my favorite. Though I think that's just because it was so beautiful shot.
.....on another note did anyone else miss Laura's name being called before she screamed? I missed it.


8 was wonderful. The opening double bill was outrageous. The stretch from roughly 11 to the end was fantastic though. I need to watch it all over again and reassess.


I need to watch FWWM, again. So much I don't remember from that film.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby The Modernist » 07 Sep 2017, 15:11

PENK wrote: And though we can never get back what was lost, surely getting some kind of real closure is not too much to ask?[/spoiler]


People like to credit Lynch with incredible mastery of everything he does and so read intentionality into everything he does. But I think Lynch and Frost went down a rabbit hole with this one and in the end only had a muddled idea of how to resolve it. Hence the frequent recourse to Deus ex Machina throughout the whole thing (the convenient introduction of doppelgangers/tulpas to explain events or kill off or introduce characters, the numerous hints that 'it's all a dream). In many ways I think they became intoxicated with the whole lore of Twin Peaks which gave them carte blanche to really indulge themselves, but a certain purity of purpose was lost as a result.

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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Goat Boy » 07 Sep 2017, 17:57

There is certainly an element of that with some fans. I don't think everything is intentional and I don't analyse things to the nth degree either. I try and appreciate the cumulative experience. To me a lot of it is about feel. Increasingly as his career has gone on he has abandoned the more rigid narrative of his earlier work for something more impressionistic and free form. It seems to me that he tried to combine his two loves: film and art together. Even at a more superficial level the special effects at times have resembled some of his art I think (there is a flatness there you know?)

Image

Image

I felt the Coles explanation of Judy felt like what you describe although I think the Tulpa thing is not just a convenient plot device (although with Dougie Jones returning to janey E it sorta is) but it fits into Lynchs duality of man thing which he has returned to over the years. The dreamlike thing naturally does enable the kind of plot leaps that might irk some but, truthfully, it never bothers me that much. I really do just go with the flow.

The whole "is it a dream" thing is red herring imo. I think that's just Lynch throwing it in out of mischief. I certainly don't think any dream interpretation is key to this like it was with Mulholland Drive. I think nearly everything here is 'real'
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby PENK » 07 Sep 2017, 19:17

I think I fall somewhere in between the two of you.

I thought that The Return was a singular and striking work of art and there is a big part of me that wants to accept the ending and echo Joel's sentiments that it's a masterpiece. Ultimately, though, I think that this opt-out focus on dreams and unreality has always been a problematic aspect of Lynch's work. He has such phenomenal vision and capacity for connections and symbols, has so much to say about contemporary life and the inner world, but falls too readily back on the dreams, the nonsense and the ambiguity. Those are certainly things which can and shouöd be explored and expressed in art but for Lynch it does seem to be a distraction and at times an excuse. It's always suggested to me that we are watching not so much his artistic vision as his private fantasy: and like a dream, it meanders towards no particular conclusion.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby PENK » 07 Sep 2017, 19:46

Some random thoughts now I've had a full day to mull things over:

There are a few theories going round about the whole thing being Cooper/Laura/Audrey's dream, or actually being a TV show within a show (hence "I'll see you at the curtain call") but I think those are nonsense. There's also one that the world in which Coop and Laura/Carrie find themselves at the end is our real world (Odessa and the Twin Peaks they go to certainly seem a bit more gritty)... but there is still weird stuff going on there too. The whole scene at Carrie's house was very odd.

Freddy: I think it was quite pointed that BOB would not be conveniently killed by Cooper, or one of the other "meaningful" characters (Truman, Hawk, Diane, Bobby consummating his redemption), but by some random guy who was introduced just a couple of episodes before. It seemed part of the greater point that things aren't convenient that way.
That said, the green glove thing was a bit stupid rather than surreal or funny, I thought.

Judy: introducing this concept in the penultimate episode (OK, we'd heard the name before from Jeffries, but not in any kind of context) just seemed too cosy a way of setting up the ending. This Lovecraftian force of evil... if you're going to spring that on us give us a bit to work with. Is that what was possessing Sarah Palmer, given her destruction of Laura's photo near the end? How the hell did that come to pass, then? Sarah was clearly not on BOB's side in the original series.

What was with the box in New York? Was Jeffries funding that to keep an eye on Lodge goings-on?

The Audrey thing still feels unsatisfying. One theory I've chewed on is that she was actually in the loony bin, as suspected, but that her already being disconnected from reality and lost in her fantasy world with Charlie et al somehow made her more aware of the reality shift when it happened,
hence the brief "awakening" scene at the end of episode 16. And all the Billy stuff... that crept into the main world at one point, in the diner,
but there was some confusion about the names Bing and Billy. All part of the changing realities masterplan? There were other glitches too - Ed's reflection in the diner etc. Has anyone online gone back and looked for them all...? Just googling I found one where a door seems to flicker a bit when Tammy approaches it...

Is Josie Packard still stuck in the drawer handle?

What about the zombie girl in the car?
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Belle Lettre » 07 Sep 2017, 20:12

Did we find out why the junkie woman kept yelling "one one NINE "? Was it the house number opposite?
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby German Dave » 07 Sep 2017, 21:01

Dropping into this thread w/o having read a word (kind of liked/loved the original series though I was always slightly suspicious of certain people practically wanking themselves off over it...)

....is it worth the effort?
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Goat Boy » 07 Sep 2017, 21:23

No
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby PENK » 07 Sep 2017, 21:25

Pat O'Banton wrote:Dropping into this thread w/o having read a word (kind of liked/loved the original series though I was always slightly suspicious of certain people practically wanking themselves off over it...)

....is it worth the effort?


Yes. It's different - darker, slower, more menacing - and you shouldn't go into it expecting lots of answers and neat resolutions. And it's very frustrating in a lot of places.
But it's quite an extraordinary experience with lots of magic, a hell of a lot of invention and some incredible images and scenes. Really not like anything else on TV.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Belle Lettre » 07 Sep 2017, 21:27

Goat Boy wrote:No

Lefty
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Goat Boy » 07 Sep 2017, 21:30

Belle Lettre wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:No

Lefty


It's worth a watch purely on a wtf level but if you are not emotionally invested in these characters and I suspect griff isn't then it might not be worth it.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Belle Lettre » 07 Sep 2017, 21:33

I think you're probably right. Although if he just likes being unsettled he certainly won't be disappointed.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Belle Lettre » 07 Sep 2017, 21:41

It was anti-nostalgia whilst being shot through with it.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby The Great Defector » 07 Sep 2017, 23:14

You know what, fuck it, it was a load of incomprehensible shite, Fuck lynch and frost.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby PENK » 08 Sep 2017, 09:03

PENK wrote:Incidentally in terms of small details, I loved Bushnell refusing to give the mobile back to the FBI guy!


Oh yeah - and Sheriff Truman at the death of Bad Coop and all that followed: sitting behind his desk with a faintly raised eyebrow.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Belle Lettre » 08 Sep 2017, 09:30

Candie trying to swat the fly (à la Lucy back in Season 1) and whacking Rodney.
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