Twin Peaks season 3

..and why not?
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby bobzilla77 » 01 Sep 2017, 20:32

She's stunning & incredibly funny. Hope to see more of her.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Belle Lettre » 03 Sep 2017, 12:55

Can't watch the finale till tomorrow night as out till then. Not going near the internet.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby joels344 » 04 Sep 2017, 03:11

Outstanding and truly haunting way to end the series. Twin Peaks: The Return is probably the greatest television series I've ever experienced. I'll need some time to fully grasp the finale, though. Here's my initial theory on the ending at least:

My guess is that they stepped into an alternative Twin Peaks timeline. Cooper stopped the original Laura Palmer murder, but in turn, he messed up the original timeline of Twin Peaks. This would explain Audrey's confusion at the end of Part 16,
Coop asking, 'What year is it?", the house not belonging to the Palmer's, and Laura's scream at the very end (possibly had a remaining memory of her saying, "I'll see you again in 25 years").

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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Dr Markus » 04 Sep 2017, 04:27

Has to be a fucking season 4! C'mon.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby joels344 » 04 Sep 2017, 14:23

I'm totally fine with there not being a 4th season. I thought the ending was superb.

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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Dr Markus » 04 Sep 2017, 14:45

I don't mind opening ended finales, however there was so many unanswered things that sometimes you can leave the audience more frustrated. Some will argue that's just Lynch/Frost and that that's what makes them so. I'll probably be on my own on this, but if they had one more season, even if it's only 10 episodes just to tie some stuff up.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby joels344 » 04 Sep 2017, 15:55

I could see fans being divided on the finale. There are certainly some open ended aspects/questions remaining, and maybe the answers exist in a subtle manner throughout The Return. However, I felt Part 17 was the actual conclusion to the series, because the main storyline involving Evil Coop was fully resolved and I see Part 18 as a rebirth into a new Twin Peaks timeline.

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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby joels344 » 04 Sep 2017, 16:00

This does leave an opportunity for a The Return: Season Two, but I do not think that was the intention of David Lynch/Mark Frost. The ending felt conclusive, and seemed like the penultimate evolution of Lynch's cinematic style. With the "Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier" being released in October, I believe Twin Peaks will be finished. Any remaining mysteries will be up to the fans to solve, so to speak.

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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby joels344 » 04 Sep 2017, 16:17

Here's another idea:

Coop goes back into the lodge, and creates the tulpa version of Dale Cooper. Maybe the real version was sent back to live with Janey-E and Sonny Jim. Because when Coop returns to the house with the red door, he's acting very similar to the way he did at the start of the series. In other words, he came out of the lodge and is mentally getting acclimated into the real world again. Meanwhile, the tulpa version of Dale Cooper finds Laura Palmer in Odessa, and they return to Twin Peaks in an alternative timeline where her murder never occurred.

There are just so many possibilities for this ending. I doubt there's a single 'correct' interpretation of Part 18.

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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Dr Markus » 04 Sep 2017, 16:36

The changing of the timeline kinda makes the lingering questions redundant. If the time line has changed they don't really matter.

I'd liked answered is Sarah palmer the little girl that had that insect yoke crawl in to her mouth?
Is she an evil doppelganger?
Once Coop and the one armed man went up the stairs to meet Jeffries, a figure could be seen running down the stairs with a long nose, or like one of those old school masks they wore during the plague.
The dead man in Laura/carries's house, is that because he was abusive, is Laura an evil doppelganger and this was her killing because she is one, or because she's so manipulative and selfish in general, when coop saved her, this was going to be her life regardless.
Old coop wouldn't have did shot that guy in the diner, he seemed a bit too full on.
Why did Diane see a version of herself at the motel?
The still of coops face while things were unfolding in the police station. It was still from the white lodge when Laura whispered something in to his ear. Is this somehow all in his head?


There's other stuff too, but that's just a start.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby joels344 » 04 Sep 2017, 17:09

Those are some very important questions, which may have cryptic answers from reviewing the series or could possibly be answered in the next Mark Frost book.

Also, I would say the questions mostly matter in the context of the original timeline, but not entirely redundant if they help us gain a deeper understanding of the Twin Peaks universe. Because if the timelines have shifted, we are still in the Twin Peaks universe, but experiencing it in a different frame of reference. The only shift that occurred was when Coop prevented Laura from meeting Jacques, Leo, and Ronette in the woods. The Black and White lodges, the extra-dimensional entities, 'the experiment,' any event leading up the murder of Laura, and all our beloved characters most likely still exist and remain important. So, any questions we have are very much relevant, but take place in an entirely different context which may be the point of The Return to began with.

It was a perplexing ending for sure, and there will be debates/theories for years. I would compare this ending reaction to the ending of Neon Genesis Evangelion. Opinions will be divided, but discussions will continue.

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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Belle Lettre » 04 Sep 2017, 23:44

I'm grateful to have had this chance to revisit , and so sorry it's all over, although of course somewhere it's never over.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Goat Boy » 05 Sep 2017, 11:09

I’m still reeling really. I found that overwhelming, frustrating, at times silly, confusing, maddening, slow…basically all the things the series has been but cranked up to a wild degree.

By the end I felt pretty fucking bummed out too. They were never gonna give us the ending We wanted but, Christ, I wasn’t expecting that. The ending may be a genius move, I’ve not decided yet. It was hugely audacious anyway and reminded me of the Prisoner in a way but way more down.

I’ve only seen these two episodes once so I need to go over it again but anyway....

Episode 17:

This felt like the proper ending to the series. Cooper returns, Bob is defeated, Freddy fulfils his destiny and Cooper is reunited with Diane (lovely). I thought the ending of Bad Cooper was a bit rushed but it was nice that Lucy shot him. I was expecting it to be Andy. The whole Freddy/Bob scene was a bit silly but I’m assuming this was almost a parody of all those comic book movies? In the same way that the original subverted soap operas this felt like something similar but with added delirium.

Coopers face in the background….the line about the dream….what exactly is going on here? The whole “I am the dreamer” thing is still a mystery to me. At first I felt it was related to Lynch’s personal creative process and I still think there is an element of that here but there’s something else too. And yet I don’t quite buy into the idea that some/all of this occurred in somebody’s head. I dunno. There was something unnatural about this whole sequence. Even the way they are all standing together watching it unfold.

The lodge sequence was suitably awesome. Every one of these scenes has been wonderful. So Phillip Jefferies gave Cooper the chance to try and rescue Laura for good and he took it. I was a bit unsure as to his motivation here. Is Cooper just too good that he couldn’t turn down the opportunity to try and remove all that pain? I think this was more about mirroring the audiences desire to revisit the past and ultimately Laura here which has been a recurring theme of the show. And then it went all META on our arses to a ridiculous degree. Loved the way they made Lauras fright at seeing something in the woods actually significant. That was very neat. And then in the next few scenes everything changes and leads us into Episode 18. Coop wants to take Laura Home. We then switch to Sarahs house where she is howling like an animal before attacking the photo of Laura. Presumably this is Mother intervening and stopping what Cooper is doing. Laura then vanishes, presumably into her second life as the lady in Odessa and some kind of alternative time line/reality/whatever is created; one where Laura is not murdered but simply vanishes. The use of the Julee Cruise performance here was wonderful and moving I thought.

Episode 18:

Curveball. Fucking hell. Truthfully I was a bit bored and thinking what the hell are they doing here but it was nice to see Cooper returning to Janey-E. That was a real sweet moment.

So Cooper leaves the lodge and meets Diane. They kiss but it’s….different. Is this actually (a changed) Cooper or just another tulpa? If it is a tulpa is the original Cooper still in the lodge with the giant (remember the opening scene of the series). The rest was so weird, especially in contrast to the previous episode. Both Diane and Cooper are different. The sex scene was incredibly odd and reinforces this quite brutally. Diane is even covering up Coopers face. The car they are driving is an old one as well (are they in the past?). Why is there a doppleganger of Diane at the gas station? I felt like I was falling a bit here, losing touch with the plot completely.

I don’t know the meaning of Richard and Linda here unless it’s just used to reinforce the idea that they are not the Real Cooper and Diane.

And then the whole scene in the diner where Cooper clearly isn’t OLD Cooper. In fact he’s more Bad Cooper in his mannerisms and speech and then we find Laura aka Carrie which leads us into the final scenes. So the house was owned by the Chalfonts which were obviously the Lodge spirits we see in FWWM (the old lady and her grandson). Coopers face at the end after he realises it’s gone wrong followed by Lauras scream was totally haunting and devastating. Coopers face in the red room during the credits was almost too much.

A few hours later I woke up with indigestion and stayed up awake for a quite a while playing this over and over in my head. Fucking hell.

Some other random observations:

It was neat how they went back to scenes from the first episode (past….future…) reinforcing the non-linear nature of the show.

Was the 25 years comment actually a reference to Cooper meeting Carrie then?

The opening scene of the series with the Giant (430…Richard and Linda)….what’s exactly going on here? Is this the original Coop still in the lodge as his copy drives to Odessa? The Giant says something like “you are far away” and Cooper says he “understands” before disappearing. Is the Cooper outside Sarahs house not the original Cooper?

Audrey…wtf? If Laura is not murdered and therefore Cooper doesn’t come to Twin peaks is Audrey saved from the nightmare of Bad Cooper and Richard? Is that what her ‘waking’ up was meant to signify? A new beginning?

A lot of loose ends too, predictably.

Were all the glitches (Big Ed at the gas station, speeded up shots of wind in the trees etc) caused by this alternative Twin peaks timeline/reality?
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Goat Boy » 05 Sep 2017, 11:20

joels344 wrote:Here's another idea:

Coop goes back into the lodge, and creates the tulpa version of Dale Cooper. Maybe the real version was sent back to live with Janey-E and Sonny Jim. Because when Coop returns to the house with the red door, he's acting very similar to the way he did at the start of the series. In other words, he came out of the lodge and is mentally getting acclimated into the real world again. Meanwhile, the tulpa version of Dale Cooper finds Laura Palmer in Odessa, and they return to Twin Peaks in an alternative timeline where her murder never occurred.

There are just so many possibilities for this ending. I doubt there's a single 'correct' interpretation of Part 18.



I don't think so. I'm pretty sure the creation of the tulpa by Mike follows into the copy arriving at Janey-E's house
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Belle Lettre » 05 Sep 2017, 11:24

Brutal. Really.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Goat Boy » 05 Sep 2017, 11:49

Belle Lettre wrote:Brutal. Really.


It was. I mean, as a fan, you obviously want some kind of 'happy' ending for Cooper. I guess not even Cooper, as good and as pure as he is could win and that's the point. Evil cannot be defeated in this way, it exists alongside good and there is a constant battle between the two opposites and trying to change certain things is pointless, we simply have to live with the consequences of 'evil'. I mean it goes into analogy here I guess. What was disappointing for me is how Cooper has 'failed' twice in this way: the first time at the end of season 2 and then at the end of season 3 but, then, he is human and that's what Cooper represents ultimately :(
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Belle Lettre » 05 Sep 2017, 12:49

The New York Times nails it:
But if “The Return” has made anything plain about Lynch and Frost’s vision for “Twin Peaks,” it’s that they see corruption and tragedy as inevitable, regardless of the time, place or generation. They do see the glow within people too, and the bonds we forge. But in a way that just makes the ends we all come to more heartbreaking.


Don't need spoilers for that do I?
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Goat Boy » 05 Sep 2017, 12:59

I don't think so no.

It seems to me that both Frost and Lynch share a similar view of humanity. I wouldn't say they were cynical though, just realists. I can relate to a lot of this.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Dr Markus » 05 Sep 2017, 13:04

While still a fan, you can see why some people think they're up their own arse and it's a mess. Sometimes you think they get a bigger high from people trying to figure it out rather than the making of the show.
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Re: Twin Peaks season 3

Postby Goat Boy » 05 Sep 2017, 13:15

Some people think Roxy Music are up their own arse, you know?

For a show like this that has its own peculiar rhythm and storytelling and use of symbolism and analogy then it's always going to attract certain kinds of criticisms like the above. See also: pretentious
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal