The Force Awakens spoiler thread

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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Geezee » 30 Dec 2015, 10:33

I thought they are hinting Rey is Obi Wan Kenobi's kid no? The parallel to her climbing the wall inside the death star was very striking, her English accent, and her flashback (which I think includes Kenobi saying something) all seem to point in that direction. One thing I thought when I saw an interview with the actress was that she bears a striking resemblance to Keira Knightley (doesn't come across so much in the movie but especially when she smiles it's pretty noticeable) so I wasn't sure if they were maybe hinting to Amidala (where Knightley played the double/decoy). Or maybe - hopefully - Rey is just her own person, with no known connection to any of them.

It did pretty much everything I thought it would do - it's a good action movie but lacks some critical ingredients that would make it great. They were of course in essentially an impossible position of trying to keep a huge range of old fans happy while also generating new audiences. So finding the right balance was always going to be difficult and I think they went too far in a couple of areas - firstly, as has already been mentioned, in the almost religious adherence to the storyline of the first movie, and secondly in trying to keep a role for old characters to keep old fans happy. It could have been a lot worse, and the fact that they keep Luke away until the end I think was a stroke of genius. But a lot of the dialogue between Han and Leia was very forced, and the initial introduction of Han and Chewie on the Millennium Falcon makes no sense whatsoever. It only struck me after watching this what one of the main problems of the fourth Indiana Jones movie was (and the fact that I didn't pick up on it immediately was understandable given how incredibly many issues there were with that movie!) - it is Harrison Ford's acting. It's just not any good any more. He isn't being allowed to age, and he doesn't know how to act as an action hero in an ageing body. As soon as I saw the trailers of Han and Chewie together it just felt wrong, just let the guy age with a bit of dignity. I was also worried that Carrie Fischer would be as bad as Karen Allen was in the Indy movie given that she's hardly acted for a long time, but I think her performance was pretty good. Overall, very good, and mainly just let down by a very surprising lack of imagination with the storyline. It was by far and away at it's best when it stuck to the new characters, and indeed Rey is a great character, and look forward to the next one. Hope Mark Hamill can still act!
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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Goat Boy » 30 Dec 2015, 10:44

Obi Wan?

I mean, I know the force was strong with him but considering this is set 30+ years after he died in A New Hope it would have to be some kind of weird fucking sexual tryst for him to father Rey!
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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Goat Boy » 30 Dec 2015, 10:47

It’s hinting that she’s Lukes kid I guess. Which would echo Luke being left on Tatooine as a baby and of course the ‘flashback’ when she touches Lukes lightsabre hints at something similar too.
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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Geezee » 30 Dec 2015, 14:18

Goat Boy wrote:It’s hinting that she’s Lukes kid I guess. Which would echo Luke being left on Tatooine as a baby and of course the ‘flashback’ when she touches Lukes lightsabre hints at something similar too.


Yes sorry i did mean grandkid. But the flashback to me seemed to more indicate a Kenobi connection than a Luke one, but of course it is left deliberately vague. And I may not be up to scratch on my Star Wars lore but I think it is just as much Kenobi's sabre as Luke's(?) or at least he gives it to him. Again my memory of the precise jedi rules are a bit fuzzy but if i remember right Jedis were not allowed to marry/have children and since this is what was behind Vader's conversion it would be a bit strange if Luke or Kenobi fell for this.

But either way these "echoes" are too obvious and lack imagination I feel - the whole flashback sequence ticks the box of Luke's Vader dream in the swamp.
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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Toby » 31 Dec 2015, 13:33

I hope she's not Luke's kid. That's far too fucking obvious in my opinion.

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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby pcqgod » 31 Dec 2015, 15:51

Dr Markus wrote:Fuck it

Droid has something that needs to get to the resistance
Droid found in the desert by unknowing Jedi
Finds a mentor
Mentor gets killed
Only way to "win" is to destroy the big ship by hitting it in a certain spot.
Unknowing Jedi cops on she's a Jedi and goes to find the one person who can train her.

That's pretty much the story for the original and JJ''s. There's a few differences, but at the heart of it, it's pretty much the same film.


That's off the top of my head, I thought of more but can't remember them at the minute.


Yeah, I couldn't help but notice the similarities. George Lucas noticed them, and called Abrams out on it.

This past weekend I was listening to an NPR critic calling J.J. Abrams "brilliantly unoriginal" in explaining the phenomenal success of 'The Force Awakens' with fans who had been disenchanted by Lucas' attempt to reinvent the Star Wars universe in the prequels.
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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Toby » 31 Dec 2015, 17:22

The criticisms of unoriginality are valid, but honestly I don't think it matters a jot. People wanted "Star Wars" - the Millennium Falcon, X-Wings, Chewbacca, jokes, great set pieces; all that shit that made the OT what it was. That is precisely why people are loving it because it's a reassertion of that vague mish-mash of things that were entirely missing from the prequels. There was a collective, almost global itch waiting to be scratched.

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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby pcqgod » 01 Jan 2016, 21:19

It scratched my itch.
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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Jimbo » 02 Jan 2016, 05:46

Toby wrote:The criticisms of unoriginality are valid, but honestly I don't think it matters a jot. People wanted "Star Wars" - the Millennium Falcon, X-Wings, Chewbacca, jokes, great set pieces; all that shit that made the OT what it was. That is precisely why people are loving it because it's a reassertion of that vague mish-mash of things that were entirely missing from the prequels. There was a collective, almost global itch waiting to be scratched.


It makes me rethink the pre/sequel I forget the title but it involves accounting. I like it more now. Something about tariffs and the empire, a dull space satire of the W regime, at least that one had some relevant politics. This one ... bupkis.
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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Neige » 02 Jan 2016, 19:05

Just came back from the 3D cinema.

I see the similarities with Episode 4, but it's great popcorn cinema, I didn't get bored one second.

The acting was mostly unconvincing, but I didn't expect much.






Meanwhile, I'm still dreaming of a whole film set in a Star Wars bar. :P
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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Conrad Knight Socks » 02 Jan 2016, 20:37

Toby wrote:The criticisms of unoriginality are valid, but honestly I don't think it matters a jot. People wanted "Star Wars" - the Millennium Falcon, X-Wings, Chewbacca, jokes, great set pieces; all that shit that made the OT what it was.


Trash compactor scene.
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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Toby » 02 Jan 2016, 20:42

Jimbo wrote:
It makes me rethink the pre/sequel I forget the title but it involves accounting. I like it more now. Something about tariffs and the empire, a dull space satire of the W regime, at least that one had some relevant politics. This one ... bupkis.


The story George Lucas tried to tell in the prequels is, on the whole, a lot more interesting. How Anakin becomes Darth Vader and how the Republic becomes the Empire. But the problem is that he created a universe in the Original Trilogy by showing rather than telling, then decided to create 3 films in completely the opposite manner of dreadfully dull exposition in the prequels .

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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Geezee » 04 Jan 2016, 08:48

Toby wrote:The criticisms of unoriginality are valid, but honestly I don't think it matters a jot. People wanted "Star Wars" - the Millennium Falcon, X-Wings, Chewbacca, jokes, great set pieces; all that shit that made the OT what it was. That is precisely why people are loving it because it's a reassertion of that vague mish-mash of things that were entirely missing from the prequels. There was a collective, almost global itch waiting to be scratched.


I agree with this, but all of that does not mean that you can't come up with a half-original story. It is as if they picked up each of the most famous scenes of the first (and second) movie, and just reframed them slightly. In fact, it's hard to pick out a scene from this movie that does not have an equivalent, and I do think it's very problematic. A lot of movies are stifled by their predecessors in different ways, but I've never seen one "straightjacketed" like this. As I said, I still enjoyed it quite a lot - it's much better than most reboots - and I'll see it again - but there's no getting away from the conclusion that they basically had nothing new to say.
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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Toby » 04 Jan 2016, 16:42

It was revealing that in the negotiations following the sale of Lucasfilm Kathleen Kennedy said to Lucas - "we want to make a film for the fans" and well, they pretty much did that.

I suspect that things will take a more interesting turn with the next films. Rogue One for example, looks like it's going to be quite "gritty" and certainly will be interesting given that it won't feature any "classic" characters.

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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Goat Boy » 04 Jan 2016, 17:41

Toby wrote:It was revealing that in the negotiations following the sale of Lucasfilm Kathleen Kennedy said to Lucas - "we want to make a film for the fans" and well, they pretty much did that.

I suspect that things will take a more interesting turn with the next films. Rogue One for example, looks like it's going to be quite "gritty" and certainly will be interesting given that it won't feature any "classic" characters.



It what Laurence Kasdan has said is anything to go by then they will stake their own claim and be something new and different.

I'm sure they will be.

I'm off to see it for the 2nd time with some friends kids this week
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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Toby » 04 Jan 2016, 20:47

Plus it's just a fucking stupid kid's film.

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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby harvey k-tel » 17 Jan 2016, 22:59

Why didn't the First Order just get its contractors to fill the interior of that flux capacitor with a bunch of girders and junk to prevent fighter jets from flying around inside the damned thing and shooting it to bits?
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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby PENK » 18 Jan 2016, 07:03

Harvey K-Tel wrote:Why didn't the First Order just get its contractors to fill the interior of that flux capacitor with a bunch of girders and junk to prevent fighter jets from flying around inside the damned thing and shooting it to bits?


They ran out of money. Note also the sparse interior decoration on the Star Killer: nary a motivational poster or pot plant in sight.
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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Conrad Knight Socks » 18 Jan 2016, 10:28

K wrote:Right.
Image
I'll give you two proper similarities: the first planet (Jakku) was as sandy as Tatooine and the bad guys used a giant, planet destroying device.
Many of the other similarities are a bit forced.
Rey does not decide to help BB8 on his mission
Obviously Lars von Tekka does not meet Rey - Kylo slices him up pretty well
Do the First Order burn her home town? (no)
And they escape the planet without any help from Solo and Chewie
The "Han as mentor to Rey as Ben was to Luke" is a rubbish comparison.
Most of the last few lines are nonsence comparisons.

Think of the First Order as being Empire fetishists. They covet stormtrooper stuff and keep the idea alive.


Also what evidence is there for Rey being an orphan (first line)? Although of course Luke was not actually an orphan either when we first meet him.
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Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Toby » 20 Jan 2016, 21:15

Going to see it again at the Science Museum IMAX next week.