The Force Awakens spoiler thread

..and why not?
User avatar
LeBaron
Diamond Geezer
Posts: 42951
Joined: 18 Jul 2003, 05:38
Location: Impregnable Citadel of Technicality

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby LeBaron » 28 Dec 2015, 23:14

Jeemo wrote:
Stille Baron wrote:I just saw it and I mostly really enjoyed it. I will probably see it again on the big screen and I definitely look forward to the next one.

But Markus is right. It's very nearly the exact same fucking movie as the first one (or IV or whatever it's called). Now there are good enough reasons for this and it sets things up nicely and history repeats itself in Star Wars and I certainly enjoyed it and all the rest. But come on.



Given that Hitchcock invariably made the same movie over and over, I'm not really that fussed about it being redone.


Did he?
I'm not sure it's the same at all, but I'm not terribly fussed either. Mildly annoyed, at best. I'll happily see it again.
Quaco wrote:Are you fucking high?

take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

User avatar
Jeemo
Posts: 20667
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 23:17
Location: ????

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Jeemo » 28 Dec 2015, 23:32

Stille Baron wrote:
Jeemo wrote:
Stille Baron wrote:I just saw it and I mostly really enjoyed it. I will probably see it again on the big screen and I definitely look forward to the next one.

But Markus is right. It's very nearly the exact same fucking movie as the first one (or IV or whatever it's called). Now there are good enough reasons for this and it sets things up nicely and history repeats itself in Star Wars and I certainly enjoyed it and all the rest. But come on.



Given that Hitchcock invariably made the same movie over and over, I'm not really that fussed about it being redone.


Did he?
I'm not sure it's the same at all, but I'm not terribly fussed either. Mildly annoyed, at best. I'll happily see it again.


The 39 Steps, Innocent Man accused of crime, initial evidence shows him to be guilty, goes on the run.
Saboteur, Innocent Man accused of crime, initial evidence shows him to be guilty, goes on the run
Strangers on A Train, Innocent Man accused of crime, initial evidence shows him to be guilty, plays tennis
The Wrong Man, Innocent Man accused of crime, initial evidence shows him to be guilty, frets a bit
Spellbound, Innocent Man accused of crime, initial evidence shows him to be guilty, dreams by Dali
Stage Fright, variation on a theme.
I Confess, Innocent Man accused of crime, knows true murderer, says Mass.
North By Northwest,Innocent Man accused of crime, initial evidence shows him to be guilty, takes the train
Frenzy, Innocent Man accused of crime, initial evidence shows him to be guilty, has a drink

I wasn't totally serious but.....
Image So Long Kid, Take A Bow.

User avatar
Count Machuki
BCB Cup Champion 2013
Posts: 38268
Joined: 11 Jun 2005, 15:28
Location: ~84 bpm

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Count Machuki » 28 Dec 2015, 23:50

Goat Boy wrote:I thought this one had the best acting yet!


Most definitely, but that's not really saying a whole hell of a lot.
Let U be the set of all united sets, K be the set of the kids and D be the set of things divided.
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D

User avatar
sloopjohnc
Posts: 62994
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby sloopjohnc » 29 Dec 2015, 01:59

Machuki Fideles wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:I thought this one had the best acting yet!


Most definitely, but that's not really saying a whole hell of a lot.


I borrowed a great book about '70s directors and Lucas was one of them.

His actors hated his Star Wars dialogue - even though it worked pretty well on the screen.

You have to remember though, Lucas's inspiration were old Flash Gordon serials.

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 32458
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Goat Boy » 29 Dec 2015, 10:16

Machuki Fideles wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:I thought this one had the best acting yet!


Most definitely, but that's not really saying a whole hell of a lot.


Maybe not but I thought the new guys were excellent. Both leads were especially good and they actually had chemistry between them which bodes well for the future. The dude had a lightness of touch and handled the comic stuff rather well. I’ve seen some people criticising Adam Driver but I thought he made a more interesting villain than you usually get in these things and I think with Solo now dispatched he’s gonna step up and be especially bad to the bone. His physicality and voice were very good as Kylo Ren and I thought he handled the Ben stuff well too. Now if only Carrie Fisher can only loosen her face a little after all that surgery we could be cooking with gas.

I agree that it was somewhat disappointing that it was basically a rehash of a New Hope. I mean, that’s the third Death Star planet blowing up thingy that’s been destroyed now. But it was brilliantly done (mostly) however they need to stretch out and do something new next time but they know that and considering what Abrams, Kasdan and the director have said already it looks like they are planning on doing something different. I really can’t wait, it could be great and there’s lots of possibilities.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

User avatar
sloopjohnc
Posts: 62994
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby sloopjohnc » 29 Dec 2015, 17:51

Goat Boy wrote:
Machuki Fideles wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:I thought this one had the best acting yet!


Most definitely, but that's not really saying a whole hell of a lot.


Maybe not but I thought the new guys were excellent. Both leads were especially good and they actually had chemistry between them which bodes well for the future. The dude had a lightness of touch and handled the comic stuff rather well. I’ve seen some people criticising Adam Driver but I thought he made a more interesting villain than you usually get in these things and I think with Solo now dispatched he’s gonna step up and be especially bad to the bone. His physicality and voice were very good as Kylo Ren and I thought he handled the Ben stuff well too. Now if only Carrie Fisher can only loosen her face a little after all that surgery we could be cooking with gas.


Agree with everything you said, even about Driver. I just don't like the guy, but I thought he was good and actually provided lots of nuance in the role.

It's always bad for a movie when you almost feel bad for the bad guy - but it's good acting.

User avatar
Geezee
Posts: 12333
Joined: 24 Jul 2003, 10:14
Location: Where joy divides into vision

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Geezee » 30 Dec 2015, 10:33

I thought they are hinting Rey is Obi Wan Kenobi's kid no? The parallel to her climbing the wall inside the death star was very striking, her English accent, and her flashback (which I think includes Kenobi saying something) all seem to point in that direction. One thing I thought when I saw an interview with the actress was that she bears a striking resemblance to Keira Knightley (doesn't come across so much in the movie but especially when she smiles it's pretty noticeable) so I wasn't sure if they were maybe hinting to Amidala (where Knightley played the double/decoy). Or maybe - hopefully - Rey is just her own person, with no known connection to any of them.

It did pretty much everything I thought it would do - it's a good action movie but lacks some critical ingredients that would make it great. They were of course in essentially an impossible position of trying to keep a huge range of old fans happy while also generating new audiences. So finding the right balance was always going to be difficult and I think they went too far in a couple of areas - firstly, as has already been mentioned, in the almost religious adherence to the storyline of the first movie, and secondly in trying to keep a role for old characters to keep old fans happy. It could have been a lot worse, and the fact that they keep Luke away until the end I think was a stroke of genius. But a lot of the dialogue between Han and Leia was very forced, and the initial introduction of Han and Chewie on the Millennium Falcon makes no sense whatsoever. It only struck me after watching this what one of the main problems of the fourth Indiana Jones movie was (and the fact that I didn't pick up on it immediately was understandable given how incredibly many issues there were with that movie!) - it is Harrison Ford's acting. It's just not any good any more. He isn't being allowed to age, and he doesn't know how to act as an action hero in an ageing body. As soon as I saw the trailers of Han and Chewie together it just felt wrong, just let the guy age with a bit of dignity. I was also worried that Carrie Fischer would be as bad as Karen Allen was in the Indy movie given that she's hardly acted for a long time, but I think her performance was pretty good. Overall, very good, and mainly just let down by a very surprising lack of imagination with the storyline. It was by far and away at it's best when it stuck to the new characters, and indeed Rey is a great character, and look forward to the next one. Hope Mark Hamill can still act!
Smilies are ON
Flash is OFF
Url is ON

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 32458
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Goat Boy » 30 Dec 2015, 10:44

Obi Wan?

I mean, I know the force was strong with him but considering this is set 30+ years after he died in A New Hope it would have to be some kind of weird fucking sexual tryst for him to father Rey!
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 32458
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Goat Boy » 30 Dec 2015, 10:47

It’s hinting that she’s Lukes kid I guess. Which would echo Luke being left on Tatooine as a baby and of course the ‘flashback’ when she touches Lukes lightsabre hints at something similar too.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

User avatar
Geezee
Posts: 12333
Joined: 24 Jul 2003, 10:14
Location: Where joy divides into vision

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Geezee » 30 Dec 2015, 14:18

Goat Boy wrote:It’s hinting that she’s Lukes kid I guess. Which would echo Luke being left on Tatooine as a baby and of course the ‘flashback’ when she touches Lukes lightsabre hints at something similar too.


Yes sorry i did mean grandkid. But the flashback to me seemed to more indicate a Kenobi connection than a Luke one, but of course it is left deliberately vague. And I may not be up to scratch on my Star Wars lore but I think it is just as much Kenobi's sabre as Luke's(?) or at least he gives it to him. Again my memory of the precise jedi rules are a bit fuzzy but if i remember right Jedis were not allowed to marry/have children and since this is what was behind Vader's conversion it would be a bit strange if Luke or Kenobi fell for this.

But either way these "echoes" are too obvious and lack imagination I feel - the whole flashback sequence ticks the box of Luke's Vader dream in the swamp.
Smilies are ON
Flash is OFF
Url is ON

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23288
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Toby » 31 Dec 2015, 13:33

I hope she's not Luke's kid. That's far too fucking obvious in my opinion.

User avatar
pcqgod
Posts: 17102
Joined: 11 Apr 2010, 07:23
Location: Texas

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby pcqgod » 31 Dec 2015, 15:51

Dr Markus wrote:Fuck it

Droid has something that needs to get to the resistance
Droid found in the desert by unknowing Jedi
Finds a mentor
Mentor gets killed
Only way to "win" is to destroy the big ship by hitting it in a certain spot.
Unknowing Jedi cops on she's a Jedi and goes to find the one person who can train her.

That's pretty much the story for the original and JJ''s. There's a few differences, but at the heart of it, it's pretty much the same film.


That's off the top of my head, I thought of more but can't remember them at the minute.


Yeah, I couldn't help but notice the similarities. George Lucas noticed them, and called Abrams out on it.

This past weekend I was listening to an NPR critic calling J.J. Abrams "brilliantly unoriginal" in explaining the phenomenal success of 'The Force Awakens' with fans who had been disenchanted by Lucas' attempt to reinvent the Star Wars universe in the prequels.
Where would rock 'n' roll be without feedback?

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23288
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Toby » 31 Dec 2015, 17:22

The criticisms of unoriginality are valid, but honestly I don't think it matters a jot. People wanted "Star Wars" - the Millennium Falcon, X-Wings, Chewbacca, jokes, great set pieces; all that shit that made the OT what it was. That is precisely why people are loving it because it's a reassertion of that vague mish-mash of things that were entirely missing from the prequels. There was a collective, almost global itch waiting to be scratched.

User avatar
pcqgod
Posts: 17102
Joined: 11 Apr 2010, 07:23
Location: Texas

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby pcqgod » 01 Jan 2016, 21:19

It scratched my itch.
Where would rock 'n' roll be without feedback?

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 15441
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Jimbo » 02 Jan 2016, 05:46

Toby wrote:The criticisms of unoriginality are valid, but honestly I don't think it matters a jot. People wanted "Star Wars" - the Millennium Falcon, X-Wings, Chewbacca, jokes, great set pieces; all that shit that made the OT what it was. That is precisely why people are loving it because it's a reassertion of that vague mish-mash of things that were entirely missing from the prequels. There was a collective, almost global itch waiting to be scratched.


It makes me rethink the pre/sequel I forget the title but it involves accounting. I like it more now. Something about tariffs and the empire, a dull space satire of the W regime, at least that one had some relevant politics. This one ... bupkis.
Gadfly

User avatar
Neige
Alpine Numpty
Posts: 16334
Joined: 17 Jul 2003, 11:11
Location: On 2 oz of plastic with a hole in the middle (of nowhere)

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Neige » 02 Jan 2016, 19:05

Just came back from the 3D cinema.

I see the similarities with Episode 4, but it's great popcorn cinema, I didn't get bored one second.

The acting was mostly unconvincing, but I didn't expect much.






Meanwhile, I'm still dreaming of a whole film set in a Star Wars bar. :P
Thumpety-thump beats plinkety-plonk every time. - Rayge

Conrad Knight Socks
Poptastic
Posts: 14766
Joined: 05 Jul 2004, 22:01

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Conrad Knight Socks » 02 Jan 2016, 20:37

Toby wrote:The criticisms of unoriginality are valid, but honestly I don't think it matters a jot. People wanted "Star Wars" - the Millennium Falcon, X-Wings, Chewbacca, jokes, great set pieces; all that shit that made the OT what it was.


Trash compactor scene.
I kept thinking "swim as far as you can, swim as far as you can".

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23288
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Toby » 02 Jan 2016, 20:42

Jimbo wrote:
It makes me rethink the pre/sequel I forget the title but it involves accounting. I like it more now. Something about tariffs and the empire, a dull space satire of the W regime, at least that one had some relevant politics. This one ... bupkis.


The story George Lucas tried to tell in the prequels is, on the whole, a lot more interesting. How Anakin becomes Darth Vader and how the Republic becomes the Empire. But the problem is that he created a universe in the Original Trilogy by showing rather than telling, then decided to create 3 films in completely the opposite manner of dreadfully dull exposition in the prequels .

User avatar
Geezee
Posts: 12333
Joined: 24 Jul 2003, 10:14
Location: Where joy divides into vision

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Geezee » 04 Jan 2016, 08:48

Toby wrote:The criticisms of unoriginality are valid, but honestly I don't think it matters a jot. People wanted "Star Wars" - the Millennium Falcon, X-Wings, Chewbacca, jokes, great set pieces; all that shit that made the OT what it was. That is precisely why people are loving it because it's a reassertion of that vague mish-mash of things that were entirely missing from the prequels. There was a collective, almost global itch waiting to be scratched.


I agree with this, but all of that does not mean that you can't come up with a half-original story. It is as if they picked up each of the most famous scenes of the first (and second) movie, and just reframed them slightly. In fact, it's hard to pick out a scene from this movie that does not have an equivalent, and I do think it's very problematic. A lot of movies are stifled by their predecessors in different ways, but I've never seen one "straightjacketed" like this. As I said, I still enjoyed it quite a lot - it's much better than most reboots - and I'll see it again - but there's no getting away from the conclusion that they basically had nothing new to say.
Smilies are ON
Flash is OFF
Url is ON

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23288
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: The Force Awakens spoiler thread

Postby Toby » 04 Jan 2016, 16:42

It was revealing that in the negotiations following the sale of Lucasfilm Kathleen Kennedy said to Lucas - "we want to make a film for the fans" and well, they pretty much did that.

I suspect that things will take a more interesting turn with the next films. Rogue One for example, looks like it's going to be quite "gritty" and certainly will be interesting given that it won't feature any "classic" characters.