New Star Wars trilogy

..and why not?
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The Modernist
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Re: New Star Wars trilogy

Postby The Modernist » 14 Nov 2017, 23:05

Belle Lettre wrote:
Stirring post, Dougie. There is another film where the score is as important - Jaws of course, more John Williams.


There are tons of films where the score is hugely important, although it's hard to think of someone as unsubtle and blindingly obvious as Williams (Danny Effman comes close), which is probably what is meant here.

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Re: New Star Wars trilogy

Postby The Modernist » 14 Nov 2017, 23:08

Rayge wrote:I'm impressed by Dougie's analysis, but the one SW film I saw (the first), I realized it was basically a fairy tale with fancy hardware to get the boys interested, aimed at people half my age.


Yeah, Dougie's put a lot into that post so I'm loathe to dissect it and pick holes. But I think it's success is chiefly a lowest common denominator thing (thematically it's on the same level as a 30s Flash Gordon film) combined with very clever marketing. And once you've bought into it then you becoming part of this gigantic community of fans and I think people are really drawn to those kind of shared experiences, and because it's been going so long shared histories, these days.

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Re: New Star Wars trilogy

Postby Belle Lettre » 15 Nov 2017, 00:13

The Modernist wrote:
Belle Lettre wrote:
Stirring post, Dougie. There is another film where the score is as important - Jaws of course, more John Williams.


There are tons of films where the score is hugely important, although it's hard to think of someone as unsubtle and blindingly obvious as Williams (Danny Effman comes close), which is probably what is meant here.

Oh, thank you for making that clear :D
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Re: New Star Wars trilogy

Postby Still Baron » 15 Nov 2017, 04:36

Star Wars came out when I was 3. I was too young to see it in the movies. Empire came out, when was it, 81? I was 7 and saw it 3 times at the theatre. I loved it like everyone else and more than most of my friends. I got as many toys as I could talk my parents into buying and watched the Saturday morning cartoons in feverish anticipation to see commercials for the new stuff that was coming out as the new movies were being rolled out.

Goat Boy talked about the movies as “cinema.” On that level, in my humble opinion, they are absolute fucking tripe.

Star Wars nostalgia (as displayed by many of my 40 something friends and acquaintances who still buy toys or have new merch and are still way into it all) makes me want to puke.

But you know what I do when a new one is coming out? I watch the trailer when someone posts it or I run across it on TV, and I get a little excited. Then I go see it in the theatre, and I always have a good time. And you know why?

Toby wrote:There's a whole load of aesthetics involved with the Star Wars trilogy that, if you were into them as a child, just seem to hit the serotonin when you watch them as an adult. If it's not the "beat up" nature of the setting, with dusty, falling apart spaceships, then it might be just the sound of lightsabers igniting or the music itself, which is a fundamental part of the movies.


Hearing the Star Wars sounds, seeing the Star Wars colors, and seeing just how badass the Star Wars bad guys look in the new movie. Those things are all major seratonin depth charges and make it totally worth it. That shit makes me really happy.
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Re: New Star Wars trilogy

Postby Goat Boy » 15 Nov 2017, 10:01

The Modernist wrote:
Belle Lettre wrote:
Stirring post, Dougie. There is another film where the score is as important - Jaws of course, more John Williams.


There are tons of films where the score is hugely important, although it's hard to think of someone as unsubtle and blindingly obvious as Williams (Danny Effman comes close), which is probably what is meant here.


There are but that wasn’t quite my point. Few movies use the score in such an elemental way to the point where it feels more important than what’s actually happening on screen. It’s like a running commentary throughout the movies. I think it’s hugely effective, you think it’s shit. The main theme of Lawrence of Arabia is not subtle either. Subtlety is not always a virtue (I actually do think there is subtlety and beauty btw)

(thematically it's on the same level as a 30s Flash Gordon film)


I disagree. Compare the Flash Gordon movie to Star Wars triology I absolutely do think there is more thematic depth there. It many ways Lukes coming of age story and that’s the main theme and probably what resonates most deeply with some fans but it touches on other stuff too. Vadars story, for example, is ultimately one of redemption, where the simple good/evil dichotomy is challenged creating something more interesting and, yes, thematically nuanced. None of this is examined with any real depth it’s fair to say but it doesn’t have to be. Just touching on things is sometimes enough in a film. I mean somebody mentioned Bladerunner and I think that’s pretty superficial in its exploration of what it means to be a human but it’s deep enough, you know? I think Star Wars is as deep as it needs to be.

Frankly I don’t think you, or Coan for that matter have much feel for this sorta thing. By ‘thing’ I mean blockbuster popcorn movies with an emphasis on special effects and pure immersive escapism. Coan is more likely to watch Alan Bennett arsing about with a crumpet and talking about such middling holiday in fucking Scunthorpe* and I don’t see much evidence of you seeking this kind of movie out either. That’s cool.

But when you say stuff like this:

But I think it's success is chiefly a lowest common denominator thing combined with very clever marketing. And once you've bought into it then you becoming part of this gigantic community of fans and I think people are really drawn to those kind of shared experiences, and because it's been going so long shared histories, these days.


Then I think you’re starting to sound like a bit of tedious snob here.

People do like to belong to a group, of course and, yes, people do seek out shared experiences but to reduce its appeal to this and “clever marketing” is too reductionist and a wee bit patronising. Besides, not all Star wars fans are part of that particular community and I certainly don't feel much kinship with it, particularly the hardcore element but then I feel an aversion to groups in general. It's always been a more personal relationship for me.

Anyway, we’ve been here before every time Star Wars comes up on here and it’s a bit boring really because opinions are so polarised. I think I’ve said about as much as I can you know? :)

* to be serious Coan likes character driven movies set in the real world
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Re: New Star Wars trilogy

Postby Goat Boy » 15 Nov 2017, 10:25

Darryl Strawberry wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:For two movies it got it right


Three.

Return of the Jedi is brilliant. The fight scene between Luke and Vader is incredible.



I think it’s a significant step down but, yeah, the final battle accompanied by the choral music is great. A real highlight.

The original premise would have been more interesting and downbeat. Obviously Gary Katz left due to creative differences with Lucas over the direction of the movie sadly
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Re: New Star Wars trilogy

Postby Toby » 15 Nov 2017, 10:47

There is no doubt that Star Wars is everywhere nowadays - you only have to go in a kids clothes shop or even a supermarket, and it's there in some form. That part of it I find distasteful.

I also think grown men and women dressing up as Star Wars characters is pretty fucking sad too. But perhaps that tells us that for whatever reason modern western society has less and less meaning for a lot of people, and so they want to bury themselves in a form of escapism that has an element of meaning, even if it's a simple good vs evil polarity.

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Re: New Star Wars trilogy

Postby Goat Boy » 15 Nov 2017, 10:55

Toby wrote:There is no doubt that Star Wars is everywhere nowadays - you only have to go in a kids clothes shop or even a supermarket, and it's there in some form. That part of it I find distasteful.

I also think grown men and women dressing up as Star Wars characters is pretty fucking sad too. But perhaps that tells us that for whatever reason modern western society has less and less meaning for a lot of people, and so they want to bury themselves in a form of escapism that has an element of meaning, even if it's a simple good vs evil polarity.


I think I saw an advert for Star Wars yogurt the other day. It annoyed me. I'm sure a lot of fans feel the same about that shit.

I have never dressed up as a Star Wars character either. I'd rather eat dog shit.
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Re: New Star Wars trilogy

Postby Belle Lettre » 15 Nov 2017, 14:03

Goat Boy wrote:
There are but that wasn’t quite my point. Few movies use the score in such an elemental way to the point where it feels more important than what’s actually happening on screen. It’s like a running commentary throughout the movies


I think it's the same with Jaws, which is why I mentioned it.
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Re: New Star Wars trilogy

Postby Moleskin » 15 Nov 2017, 14:22

Toby wrote:There is no doubt that Star Wars is everywhere nowadays - you only have to go in a kids clothes shop or even a supermarket, and it's there in some form.


This touches on something else. Star Wars was one of the first massively merchandised films. Even in the 80s there were tons of toys. The children who had those toys could invest a lot more into the world of the movies, replaying scenes from the film on the bedroom floor, or creating their own adventures. I think that plays a part in the modern ubiquity of Star Wars.

It's also a lesson every film-maker seems to have taken to heart. When was the last time you saw a blockbuster type film without toys and other ephemera on the supermarket shelves?
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