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Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 14:38
by Snowdog
Davey The Fat Boy wrote:
The Slider wrote:
Davey The Fat Boy wrote: there is almost no subtlety in this music.


This is, I think, one of the strangest comments I have ever heard passed on Yes. Subtlety is one of their main strengths.


I don't think e are talking about the same thing. My guess is you are talking about musical complexity. They certainly had plenty of that - often for its own sake. But there was literally nothing subtle about them. Their songs were generally long and meandering, and often the arrangements seemed to be geared towards showcasing their musicianship, rather than bothering to be evocative in any meaningful way. Lyrically they were equally obscure and grandiose.

And fuck it all - their keyboard player wore a cape. A cape for the love of God!!!

Image
"Taste of fruitful inhibitions of a human.
Incapable of future seeing
beyond his thoughts of music.
Birth of music, birth of child is one.
Language of the world, the missing sense."
:roll:


Fair enough then.

What you see as a weakness or problematic I'd see as a strength & part of what I love about them.

What's the point of saying 'a cape' as if there's something intrinsically bad about it?

It makes about as much sense as me saying The Clash were shit because they didn't wear capes.

Is there a particular style of cape that's okay? Was it okay when Elvis wore one?

Discussion over.

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 14:57
by KeithPratt
Oh, that's good.

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 15:15
by Davey the Fat Boy
Snowdog 2006 wrote: What's the point of saying 'a cape' as if there's something intrinsically bad about it?


Capes are intrinsically unsubtle. I am drawing a line in the sand here. You cannot wear a cape and be considered subtle. The possibility officially goes away the minute you tie the little strap thingy's around your neck.

It makes about as much sense as me saying The Clash were shit because they didn't wear capes.

No. The Clash were great because they didn't wear capes. What part of this is confusing you?

Is there a particular style of cape that's okay?

No. All capes are unsubtle. I am prepared to back this statement up with charts and graphs.

Was it okay when Elvis wore one?

No it wasn't. It eventually killed him. Liberace too.

Discussion over.

That's fine. I am perfectly willing to monologue if need be. :D

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 15:32
by Bungo the Mungo
Davey The Fat Boy wrote:
Was it okay when Elvis wore one?

No it wasn't. It eventually killed him. Liberace too.


howabout james brown? :D

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 15:40
by Davey the Fat Boy
soul-a-skope wrote:
Davey The Fat Boy wrote:
Was it okay when Elvis wore one?

No it wasn't. It eventually killed him. Liberace too.


howabout james brown? :D


It led him to several arrests, a 3 year prison stay, drug abuse, and the recording of "Living in America." Just say no.

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 15:48
by ComradeGummidge
Glad to see there is a large contingent of people on here who like Yes. I have for many years and despite being beaten with the anti-prog stick on many occasions I'm sticking to my guns. To be honest Davey is right, Yes can get lost in their own showmanship and some tracks seem to go on a little longer than is needed, BUT the plus side is there is a lot of emotion and depth to their music, you kind of overlook these things.

Sorry the comments about Mr Wakeman's cape are utter bollocks.

Right, as for my favourite album / track.... I'll always have a soft spot for Talk as it was the first Yes album I listened to. In recent years though I've thought it sounds more like a Trevor Rabin solo project (and that is no way an insult). So at the moment I would have to say my favourite albums are Going For The One and 90125. And my favourite track has to be Rhythm Of Love which in many respects is MUCH better than Owner Of A Lonely Heart shame it didn't get the same popularity.

Cheers,

Andy

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 15:53
by Davey the Fat Boy
Hollywood wrote: Sorry the comments about Mr Wakeman's cape are utter bollocks.


I'll bet you are wearing a cape right now. Come clean.

Image
Is this you?

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 15:56
by &
Davey The Fat Boy is a man after my own heart.

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 16:06
by ComradeGummidge
Davey The Fat Boy wrote:
Hollywood wrote: Sorry the comments about Mr Wakeman's cape are utter bollocks.


I'll bet you are wearing a cape right now. Come clean.

Image
Is this you?


yes, yes I am :wink: it sparkles while I play my 10 stacked keyboards

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 17:10
by Snowdog
Davey The Fat Boy wrote:
Snowdog 2006 wrote: What's the point of saying 'a cape' as if there's something intrinsically bad about it?


Capes are intrinsically unsubtle. I am drawing a line in the sand here. You cannot wear a cape and be considered subtle. The possibility officially goes away the minute you tie the little strap thingy's around your neck.

It makes about as much sense as me saying The Clash were shit because they didn't wear capes.

No. The Clash were great because they didn't wear capes. What part of this is confusing you?

Is there a particular style of cape that's okay?

No. All capes are unsubtle. I am prepared to back this statement up with charts and graphs.

Was it okay when Elvis wore one?

No it wasn't. It eventually killed him. Liberace too.

Discussion over.

That's fine. I am perfectly willing to monologue if need be. :D


All I'm saying is that stating opinion as fact (which is basically what you're doing) creates a conversational dead end so there's not much point in continuing the discussion.

I will say that what I meant about The Clash (or any other artist come to think of it) is that I could just as easily state anything as a personal preference & it would still be, quite simply, meaningless.

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 17:38
by geoffcowgill
soul-a-skope wrote:
Davey The Fat Boy wrote:
Was it okay when Elvis wore one?

No it wasn't. It eventually killed him. Liberace too.


howabout james brown? :D


If you'll recall, every time they tried to put it on him, he threw the damn thing off!

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 17:54
by Davey the Fat Boy
Snowdog 2006 wrote:
Davey The Fat Boy wrote:
Snowdog 2006 wrote: What's the point of saying 'a cape' as if there's something intrinsically bad about it?


Capes are intrinsically unsubtle. I am drawing a line in the sand here. You cannot wear a cape and be considered subtle. The possibility officially goes away the minute you tie the little strap thingy's around your neck.

It makes about as much sense as me saying The Clash were shit because they didn't wear capes.

No. The Clash were great because they didn't wear capes. What part of this is confusing you?

Is there a particular style of cape that's okay?

No. All capes are unsubtle. I am prepared to back this statement up with charts and graphs.

Was it okay when Elvis wore one?

No it wasn't. It eventually killed him. Liberace too.

Discussion over.

That's fine. I am perfectly willing to monologue if need be. :D


All I'm saying is that stating opinion as fact (which is basically what you're doing) creates a conversational dead end so there's not much point in continuing the discussion.

I will say that what I meant about The Clash (or any other artist come to think of it) is that I could just as easily state anything as a personal preference & it would still be, quite simply, meaningless.


Oh c'mon now. Just look at it. How can you defend it?
Image

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 18:38
by king feeb
Alright, so Wakeman's cape is indefensible, admittedly.

But he also got canned from Yes by Jon Anderson for eating takeout chicken curry onstage during the boring parts of Topographic Oceans.

It all evens out in the end...

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 18:46
by Butch Manly
king feeb wrote:Yes have been perennial whipping boys for the anti-prog brigade. Too bad they never bothered to listen to their prime material, which is rockin' and smart in all the right ways. Also, Squire's bass is Godlike, one of the most unique instrumental sounds in rock.

Album: Close To The Edge

Song: "South Side Of The Sky" (among many others. that's the one I'm playing right now)


exactly right - i could have written that myself.

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 18:55
by The Modernist
The Giraffe wrote:
king feeb wrote:Yes have been perennial whipping boys for the anti-prog brigade. Too bad they never bothered to listen to their prime material, which is rockin' and smart in all the right ways. Also, Squire's bass is Godlike, one of the most unique instrumental sounds in rock.

Album: Close To The Edge

Song: "South Side Of The Sky" (among many others. that's the one I'm playing right now)


exactly right - i could have written that myself.


Is it only Yes you like from that period or do you like some of the other proggers Andy? I only ask because I can never square your love for them with your tastes in general and I'm curious.

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 19:15
by Butch Manly
The Unique Modernist! wrote:
The Giraffe wrote:
king feeb wrote:Yes have been perennial whipping boys for the anti-prog brigade. Too bad they never bothered to listen to their prime material, which is rockin' and smart in all the right ways. Also, Squire's bass is Godlike, one of the most unique instrumental sounds in rock.

Album: Close To The Edge

Song: "South Side Of The Sky" (among many others. that's the one I'm playing right now)


exactly right - i could have written that myself.


Is it only Yes you like from that period or do you like some of the other proggers Andy? I only ask because I can never square your love for them with your tastes in general and I'm curious.


it's pretty much only yes. i have a few king crimson records tucked away but i can't say i get too passionate about them and genesis have done two or three good songs and a lot of stuff that makes me want to scream with frustration.

i'm aware that they have almost nothing to do with the post-punk stuff that became the first scene that i bought into as it actually happened but since i was 13 i've always loved their early seventies output (and the brief renaissance they experienced with going for the one). it's easy to dismiss them as grandiose, self-indulgent and meaningless (and to an extent that's all true, i suppose) but they were also a shit-hot band who pushed the envelope for a while and they could actually rock out pretty good (thanks mostly to squire's astonishing bass playing they're actually funky on occasion) plus anderson had an ear for a melody that only macca and a handful of others can rival.

interestingly, it's jon anderson who's generally held up as the main villain of the piece by the disciples of the punk revolution but he's apparently a very spontaneous musician, always wanting to do it in one take and move on. chris squire was the one who always wanted to spend weeks re-recording and overdubbing and was frequently exasperated by anderson's methods. also, i remember anderson being noticeably positive about the UK punk explosion at the time, unlike many of his peers.

i think there's good and bad in every genre of pop and yes were the masters of theirs, at least for a while.

they have their place.

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 19:17
by Butch Manly
incidentally, lenny has fairly similar tastes to me and yet loves gabriel era genesis. i'm not alone in this affliction, you know. :lol:

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 19:43
by Snowdog
Davey The Fat Boy wrote:
Snowdog 2006 wrote:
Davey The Fat Boy wrote:
Snowdog 2006 wrote: What's the point of saying 'a cape' as if there's something intrinsically bad about it?


Capes are intrinsically unsubtle. I am drawing a line in the sand here. You cannot wear a cape and be considered subtle. The possibility officially goes away the minute you tie the little strap thingy's around your neck.

It makes about as much sense as me saying The Clash were shit because they didn't wear capes.

No. The Clash were great because they didn't wear capes. What part of this is confusing you?

Is there a particular style of cape that's okay?

No. All capes are unsubtle. I am prepared to back this statement up with charts and graphs.

Was it okay when Elvis wore one?

No it wasn't. It eventually killed him. Liberace too.

Discussion over.

That's fine. I am perfectly willing to monologue if need be. :D


All I'm saying is that stating opinion as fact (which is basically what you're doing) creates a conversational dead end so there's not much point in continuing the discussion.

I will say that what I meant about The Clash (or any other artist come to think of it) is that I could just as easily state anything as a personal preference & it would still be, quite simply, meaningless.


Oh c'mon now. Just look at it. How can you defend it?
Image


I think it looks fantastic.

Which is as valid as you saying the opposite.

Your turn. :D

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 19:57
by Prograstinator
*Ahem*

Quite a lot of Yes fans on the board.. but who has Yes tattoo'd on their body?

Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 20:02
by Butch Manly
Tangent wrote:*Ahem*

Quite a lot of Yes fans on the board.. but who has Yes tattoo'd on their body?


is it davey? :?