BCB 100 - The Smiths

[The Modernist]

The interesting thing about The Smiths was how aware they were of filling this chasm.
Everything about them was designed to counteract the rather baroque new pop that had taken hold by 84. Even the name was a deliberately plain countenance to all those silly long band names that were commonplace. They were very well thought through in that sense, arriving almost fully formed in terms of what they stood for. This magnified their impact considerably.

But, like I said, it wasn't difficult. Mozz took a few years planning it out in his bedroom, nonetheless. That much was plain to see. And it was a little off-putting.

Yet no else came up with such a band. They were splendidly original if nothing else.

[The Modernist]

[ as did Lennon (which is why he sacked pete best and why he nurtured the talentless sutcliffe). All very, very contrived.

That was more to do with Martin not rating him as a drummer and to a degree their collective jealousy at the attention his looks got off the girl fans. They all seemed equally complicit in it, ultimately his personality didn't really fit in with the other three. Happens all the time in bands, hardly some Lennon "masterplan".

[Owen]

[ as did Lennon (which is why he sacked pete best and why he nurtured the talentless sutcliffe). All very, very contrived.

That was more to do with Martin not rating him as a drummer and to a degree their collective jealousy at the attention his looks got off the girl fans. They all seemed equally complicit in it, ultimately his personality didn't really fit in with the other three. Happens all the time in bands, hardly some Lennon "masterplan".

I think Lennon was just ambitious in the way most acts who make it are, dylan fits really well though,

[Bungo the Mungo]

But, like I said, it wasn't difficult. Mozz took a few years planning it out in his bedroom, nonetheless. That much was plain to see. And it was a little off-putting.

This is what I hate about Bob Dylan and John Lennon.

Elaborate, please. In your own time!

Well bob dylan planned his destiny with great precision, as did Lennon (which is why he sacked pete best and why he nurtured the talentless sutcliffe). All very, very contrived.

I just think that you (and other critics) are starting to take the lead on the 'blinkered' theory. How can you revere Neil Young with his whiney voice and morbid themes on one hand and then criticise the smiths on the other?

I like the Smiths. It's just that we've all decided to pick them apart, for want of anything better to do on this dull Sunday morning.

Ah, fuck it, I'm off to buy a new mobile phone.

[Oscar]

[ as did Lennon (which is why he sacked pete best and why he nurtured the talentless sutcliffe). All very, very contrived.

That was more to do with Martin not rating him as a drummer and to a degree their collective jealousy at the attention his looks got off the girl fans. They all seemed equally complicit in it, ultimately his personality didn't really fit in with the other three. Happens all the time in bands, hardly some Lennon "masterplan".

But would he have got rid of Macca or Harrison under the same circumstances? I think not. Ether way, my point is that everything in entertainment is contrived. Everything!

[The Modernist]

[ as did Lennon (which is why he sacked pete best and why he nurtured the talentless sutcliffe). All very, very contrived.

That was more to do with Martin not rating him as a drummer and to a degree their collective jealousy at the attention his looks got off the girl fans. They all seemed equally complicit in it, ultimately his personality didn't really fit in with the other three. Happens all the time in bands, hardly some Lennon "masterplan".

But would he have got rid of Macca or Harrison under the same circumstances? I think not. Ether way, my point is that everything in entertainment is contrived. Everything!

No probably not, but then that comes back to the fact that none of them particularly clicked with Best. He was expendable. But I agree with your overall point.

[Oscar]

But, like I said, it wasn't difficult. Mozz took a few years planning it out in his bedroom, nonetheless. That much was plain to see. And it was a little off-putting.

This is what I hate about Bob Dylan and John Lennon.

Elaborate, please. In your own time!

Well bob dylan planned his destiny with great precision, as did Lennon (which is why he sacked pete best and why he nurtured the talentless sutcliffe). All very, very contrived.

I just think that you (and other critics) are starting to take the lead on the 'blinkered' theory. How can you revere Neil Young with his whiney voice and morbid themes on one hand and then criticise the smiths on the other?

I like the Smiths. It's just that we've all decided to pick them apart, for want of anything better to do on this dull Sunday morning.

Ah, fuck it, I'm off to buy a new mobile phone.

Oh well, I'm off as well then. I've got a bastarding hangover (cheers prof, slider, and sam) and now I've got to meet my uncles (the mafia) down at the club for more beer.

[Bungo the Mungo]

But, like I said, it wasn't difficult. Mozz took a few years planning it out in his bedroom, nonetheless. That much was plain to see. And it was a little off-putting.

This is what I hate about Bob Dylan and John Lennon.

Elaborate, please. In your own time!

Well bob dylan planned his destiny with great precision, as did Lennon (which is why he sacked pete best and why he nurtured the talentless sutcliffe). All very, very contrived.

I just think that you (and other critics) are starting to take the lead on the 'blinkered' theory. How can you revere Neil Young with his whiney voice and morbid themes on one hand and then criticise the smiths on the other?

I like the Smiths. It's just that we've all decided to pick them apart, for want of anything better to do on this dull Sunday morning.

Ah, fuck it, I'm off to buy a new mobile phone.

Oh well, I'm off as well then. I've got a bastarding hangover (cheers prof, slider, and sam) and now I've got to meet my uncles (the mafia) down at the club for more beer.

Oh, aye? A secret JU, eh? Hmm.

HEY FOLKS! PROF, SLIDER, SAM AND OSCAR MET UP FOR A FEW DRINKS LAST NIGHT....AND DIDN'T TELL ANYONE!!

[Minnie, Boss of Appropriate Posting]

[ as did Lennon (which is why he sacked pete best and why he nurtured the talentless sutcliffe). All very, very contrived.

That was more to do with Martin not rating him as a drummer and to a degree their collective jealousy at the attention his looks got off the girl fans. They all seemed equally complicit in it, ultimately his personality didn't really fit in with the other three. Happens all the time in bands, hardly some Lennon "masterplan".

But would he have got rid of Macca or Harrison under the same circumstances? I think not. Ether way, my point is that everything in entertainment is contrived. Everything!

Ha! Don't be ridiculous. Next you will be trying to tell us Tom Cruise only regularly marries women to disguise the fact that he is a raging fudgepacker.

[Penk!]

The interesting thing about The Smiths was how aware they were of filling this chasm.
Everything about them was designed to counteract the rather baroque new pop that had taken hold by 84. Even the name was a deliberately plain countenance to all those silly long band names that were commonplace. They were very well thought through in that sense, arriving almost fully formed in terms of what they stood for. This magnified their impact considerably.

But, like I said, it wasn't difficult. Mozz took a few years planning it out in his bedroom, nonetheless. That much was plain to see. And it was a little off-putting.

Yet no else came up with such a band. They were splendidly original if nothing else.

Not disputing that, I just think that there's a slight lack of honesty in the conceit that's at odds with the idealised view people have of them. Fair enough if you want to consider Morrissey is the most important person in your life but there was definitely an element of him setting out to fulfil that role rather than falling into it naturally.
I do like some aspects of the masterplan though, the running theme with the cover artwork is an attractive and oddly touching idea, I can see that that kind of romanticised imagery could draw people in.

[yomptepi]

The interesting thing about The Smiths was how aware they were of filling this chasm.
Everything about them was designed to counteract the rather baroque new pop that had taken hold by 84. Even the name was a deliberately plain countenance to all those silly long band names that were commonplace. They were very well thought through in that sense, arriving almost fully formed in terms of what they stood for. This magnified their impact considerably.

But, like I said, it wasn't difficult. Mozz took a few years planning it out in his bedroom, nonetheless. That much was plain to see. And it was a little off-putting.

Yet no else came up with such a band. They were splendidly original if nothing else.

Not disputing that, I just think that there's a slight lack of honesty in the conceit that's at odds with the idealised view people have of them. Fair enough if you want to consider Morrissey is the most important person in your life but there was definitely an element of him setting out to fulfil that role rather than falling into it naturally.
I do like some aspects of the masterplan though, the running theme with the cover artwork is an attractive and oddly touching idea, I can see that that kind of romanticised imagery could draw people in.

So, having given up with your theory that the Smiths are a totally miserablist band, who only appeal to emo dropouts, and permanently adolesant 40+ year olds, you now think the whole thing was a confidence trick, designed to draw people in with photographs from the classic films of the sixties. You are a clueless child.

[Penk!]

The interesting thing about The Smiths was how aware they were of filling this chasm.
Everything about them was designed to counteract the rather baroque new pop that had taken hold by 84. Even the name was a deliberately plain countenance to all those silly long band names that were commonplace. They were very well thought through in that sense, arriving almost fully formed in terms of what they stood for. This magnified their impact considerably.

But, like I said, it wasn't difficult. Mozz took a few years planning it out in his bedroom, nonetheless. That much was plain to see. And it was a little off-putting.

Yet no else came up with such a band. They were splendidly original if nothing else.

Not disputing that, I just think that there's a slight lack of honesty in the conceit that's at odds with the idealised view people have of them. Fair enough if you want to consider Morrissey is the most important person in your life but there was definitely an element of him setting out to fulfil that role rather than falling into it naturally.
I do like some aspects of the masterplan though, the running theme with the cover artwork is an attractive and oddly touching idea, I can see that that kind of romanticised imagery could draw people in.

So, having given up with your theory that the Smiths are a totally miserablist band, who only appeal to emo dropouts, and permanently adolesant 40+ year olds, you now think the whole thing was a confidence trick, designed to draw people in with photographs from the classic films of the sixties. You are a clueless child.

To be honest I can't be arsed replying to this any more because you're just going to carry on trying to twist what people say to your own view and not actually address the points I'm making.
The attitude that we spent several pages discussing last night, and which the Smiths' defenders always deny adopting.

[yomptepi]

The interesting thing about The Smiths was how aware they were of filling this chasm.
Everything about them was designed to counteract the rather baroque new pop that had taken hold by 84. Even the name was a deliberately plain countenance to all those silly long band names that were commonplace. They were very well thought through in that sense, arriving almost fully formed in terms of what they stood for. This magnified their impact considerably.

But, like I said, it wasn't difficult. Mozz took a few years planning it out in his bedroom, nonetheless. That much was plain to see. And it was a little off-putting.

Yet no else came up with such a band. They were splendidly original if nothing else.

Not disputing that, I just think that there's a slight lack of honesty in the conceit that's at odds with the idealised view people have of them. Fair enough if you want to consider Morrissey is the most important person in your life but there was definitely an element of him setting out to fulfil that role rather than falling into it naturally.
I do like some aspects of the masterplan though, the running theme with the cover artwork is an attractive and oddly touching idea, I can see that that kind of romanticised imagery could draw people in.

So, having given up with your theory that the Smiths are a totally miserablist band, who only appeal to emo dropouts, and permanently adolesant 40+ year olds, you now think the whole thing was a confidence trick, designed to draw people in with photographs from the classic films of the sixties. You are a clueless child.

To be honest I can't be arsed replying to this any more because you're just going to carry on trying to twist what people say to your own view and not actually address the points I'm making.
The attitude that we spent several pages discussing last night, and which the Smiths' defenders always deny adopting.

I am not twisting anything. You are talking out of your arse, and I am not standing for it. Talk some sense, and you will get some worthy replies, but trying to argue your points on pure guesswork and speculation is only going to end up in frustration. The problem you have is that everyone here knows what they are talking about....except you.

[The Prof]

HEY FOLKS! PROF, SLIDER, SAM AND OSCAR MET UP FOR A FEW DRINKS LAST NIGHT....AND DIDN'T TELL ANYONE!!

and i'm not even hungover!

There's a long thread about in in the Secret Room

[Mike Boom]

Glumfests like 'Wonderful Woman', 'I Know It's Over', 'Accept Yourself', and 'Meat Is Murder' do not feature Wildean one-liners, puns, or self-deprecating quips. They're miserable. Utterly grey.

See there's a prime example "Accept Yourself".

"For anything is hard to find
When you will not open your eyes
Every day you must say
Oh, how do I feel about my shoes ?"

That is at least mildly amusing to me - its certainly sung with a wink and a nudge - and this "repeated riffing" you talk about , I find just beautifully hypnotic and trance-like.

I honestly think the Smiths are one of the most perfect bands there has ever been - very very rarely did they EVER make a false step musically speaking.

[Oscar]

HEY FOLKS! PROF, SLIDER, SAM AND OSCAR MET UP FOR A FEW DRINKS LAST NIGHT....AND DIDN'T TELL ANYONE!!

and i'm not even hungover!

There's a long thread about in in the Secret Room

It's been posted there for about 2 months for fuck's sake ! If people can't be bothered to respond the the thread then I can't be bothered to make any effort to entertain them.

[Oscar]

[ as did Lennon (which is why he sacked pete best and why he nurtured the talentless sutcliffe). All very, very contrived.

That was more to do with Martin not rating him as a drummer and to a degree their collective jealousy at the attention his looks got off the girl fans. They all seemed equally complicit in it, ultimately his personality didn't really fit in with the other three. Happens all the time in bands, hardly some Lennon "masterplan".

I think Lennon was just ambitious in the way most acts who make it are, dylan fits really well though,

I think performers are very likely to contrive because they're ambitious. Lennon knew what he wanted and he contrived to get. Even the hippy-peace-love-hair-cock out bullshit was all contrived.

[Penk!]

I am not twisting anything.

OK. Show me where I "gave up my theory", where I tried to imply that "the whole thing was a confidence trick designed to draw people in with photographs from the classic films" and where I say that they're a "totally miserabilist band" and I might stop "talking out of my arse."
But no, you won't show me any of that, will you? The red mist will descend and you'll read even this post as me saying "I HATE THE SMITHS" and just lay into me without really paying attention to what I've been saying.
Like I said, I can't be arsed trying to argue over it any more.

[yomptepi]

[ Even the hippy-peace-love-hair-cock out bullshit was all contrived.

You think???

[The Modernist]

Is anyone else struggling to imagine an angry Owen Hargreaves.