BCB 100 - The Smiths

[010101010101]

I think they're fuckin' shit; miserabilism for bedwetters who should get out more.

And I'm right in that opinion. Lock thread.

[Oscar]

How the fuck is that 'my case' you knob. I didn't say ever it, just took a stab at suggesting what whoever did might have been on about.

Actually Owen, you did eventually say "it does seem hypocritical".

I never understand these Smiths arguments. I think they're great but I can understand why some people might not like them; especially Morrissey.

Actually that's pretty much my opinion too. A lot of this has been because they are interesting to talk about, a bit because i was bored and a bit because i do genuinely find some of the fan response mystifying.

Most of it was tongue in cheek, it's something we've talked about enough times that i already know the actual opinions of the people in the thread i respect.

I do think the whole celibacy thing was a cop out, but i can understand why he did it

Dropping like flies. Two more to go.

[The Modernist]

Well I agree he'd have been better off copping off than copping out.

[The Prof]

Well maybe when he said he was celibate, he was celibate. Maybe he launched him bumming career when he found someone he wanted to bum.

But for fucks sake - does it matter?

The world of The Smiths is full of literary references, black & white films, comedy, kitchen sink dramas, unrequited love and Oscar Wilde.
You can buy into it as much or as little as you want. If you chose not to then it's your loss.

[Mike Boom]

Since when does the fact that, not everything you write in the lyric to a rock n roll song is strictly autobiographical and true to the very last detail, make you a hypocrite???? Can you not write from the point of view of a character? Can you not write from a different perspective than your own?

Not everything in the song has to be true for the meaning and sentiment of the song to be heartfelt and honest.

You must really hate Ziggy Stardust then, unless you believe Bowie was really an Alien. Its a bizarre and stupid idea - it leads to people believing that Randy Newman really hates short people.

[PENK]

Randy Newman really hates short people.

What a bastard! Let's get him!

[nathan]

So Morrissey was a homosexual that didn't engage in sexual activity? That must have been very hard on his emotional well-being. The poor misunderstood soul.

[Mr Maps]

Randy Newman really hates short people.

What a bastard! Let's get him!

He didn't really. It was an allegory for how much he hated black people.

So Morrissey was a homosexual that didn't engage in sexual activity? That must have been very hard on his emotional well-being. The poor misunderstood soul.

I'll say

[PENK]

Randy Newman really hates short people.

What a bastard! Let's get him!

He didn't really. It was an allegory for how much he hated black people.

Fucking hypocrite

[Matt Wilson]

So Morrissey was a homosexual that didn't engage in sexual activity? That must have been very hard on his emotional well-being. The poor misunderstood soul.

It's OK.
He got his emotions on paper by writing in the persona of a girl, apparantly.

[nathan]

So Morrissey was a homosexual that didn't engage in sexual activity? That must have been very hard on his emotional well-being. The poor misunderstood soul.

I'll say

Well I always assumed I Started Something I Couldn't Finish was about his masturbation exploits so clearly he was releasing during this period. (And of course he finished... the grunts gave that away)

[Mike Boom]

He got his emotions on paper by writing in the persona of a girl, apparantly.

Sometimes , yes ...

Girl afraid
Where do his intentions lay ?

Or does he even have any ?

She says
He never really looks at me
I give him every opportunity
In the room downstairs
He sat and stared
In the room downstairs
He sat and stared
Ill never make that mistake again !

Ill never make that mistake again
Ill never make that mistake again

Boy afraid
Prudence never pays

And everything she wants costs money


But she doesnt even like me !
And I know because she said so
In the room downstairs
She sat and stared
In the room downstairs
She sat and stared
Ill never make that mistake again !

[Oscar]

So Morrissey was a homosexual that didn't engage in sexual activity? That must have been very hard on his emotional well-being. The poor misunderstood soul.

It's OK.
He got his emotions on paper by writing in the persona of a girl, apparantly.

And a boy.

"Girlfriend in a coma"

"Oh, let me get my hands
On your mammary gland"

[Butch Manly]

He is definitely a person who would get a kick out of causing confusion.

in fact, that has been a major feature of his persona and art since day one.

remember the last few lines of "speedway"?

and all those lies,
written lies,
twisted lies.
well....
they weren't lies,
they weren't lies,
they weren't lies.

[Bungo the Mungo]

He got his emotions on paper by writing in the persona of a girl, apparantly.

Sometimes , yes ...

Girl afraid
Where do his intentions lay ?

Or does he even have any ?

She says
He never really looks at me
I give him every opportunity
In the room downstairs
He sat and stared
In the room downstairs
He sat and stared
Ill never make that mistake again !

Ill never make that mistake again
Ill never make that mistake again

Boy afraid
Prudence never pays

And everything she wants costs money


But she doesnt even like me !
And I know because she said so
In the room downstairs
She sat and stared
In the room downstairs
She sat and stared
Ill never make that mistake again !

Their best song.

[Mr Maps]

Girl afraid

Their best song.

I'll say, These Things Take Time

[Count Machuki]

3 favoUrite Smiths songs

[Slugger]

Sounds like maybe I should go ahead and get their first album, huh?

That would be a wise purchase...

No need. Just get hatful and that's the first year covered.

[Eddie Shah environment]

I was quite disappointed that THE GREATEST ALBUM OF THE 1980s was not, frankly, all that great.

It's not, and I'm a fan. The problem is that The Smiths didn't do things conventionally - all the studio albums are patchy. I think Strangeways is just one big patch, but others like it, I know. TQID and MIM are just so hit and miss - stuff like Cemetry Gates and Nowhere Fast are pleasant enough, but nowhere near what they could do, which was all too often found on B sides - hence many people rating LTB and HOH as their essential records. The first album doesn't have a less than brilliant song (though Miserable Lie can catch the wrong mood at times), but is famously produced in an ill-fitting manner.

Album: The Smiths (but I prefer the two comps)

Song: Wonderful Woman

Spot on.

I miss Roddy.

[echolalia]

Spot on.

I miss Roddy.

Roddy’s doing OK. I’ll be seeing him in the next few weeks hopefully. He was shortlisted for the T. S. Eliot Prize but didn’t win it. His collection, So Glad I’m Me, is full of references to pop music and every BCBer should have it. I remember seeing an early pamphlet where one of his poems was pubished alongside an Ian Curtis lyric – he was really happy about that and there’s no other poet in the anglosphere that has his knowledge or appreciation of music. Maybe there’s a Dylan-Nobel backlash going on. He told me Buying Shoes for Alex Chilton was inspired by me! Not that I can see it.

And that first Smiths album - still fantastic - I never tire of it.