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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 19:48
by Darkness_Fish
Australia had France looking ropy, until VAR dug them out in their opening game.

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 19:49
by Darkness_Fish
Not as ropy as Rother's opinions regarding Wilshere, mind you.

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 19:52
by Nikki Gradual
The Modernist wrote:I'd say there was a lot more to France than a rather negative team. They were just so clinical in the way they chose their moments. It is to the tremendous credit of Croatia that they pushed them as far as they did, I think they were the only team that had France in real difficulty.


Agreed. For the first 15 minutes, Croatia looked by far the better side, then it was evens, but for the 10 minute period between scoring the third and Lloris' fuck up, France genuinely looked like they could hit double figures without breaking into a sweat. That was when the class showed.
And it was a penalty, no question. Hand clearly moved towards the ball.

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 19:54
by Nikki Gradual
PENK wrote:HOW THE FUCK IS IT A CLEAR AND OBVIOUS ERROR WHEN IT TAKES FIVE MINUTES WATCHING THE REPLAY FOR THEM TO DECIDE?!

Congratulations to VAR for ruining the World Cup.


Perhaps they just wanted to be really sure so they didn't make a mistake. Because, well, World Cup Final and all that.

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 20:36
by joklend
The Modernist wrote:
joklend wrote:
PENK wrote:
Because VAR is by definition to be used to correct ”clear and obvious errors”. It can be proved that this was not a ”clear and obvious error” due to the time needed to change the decision, the uncertainty of many viewers, commentators and experts on the decision, and the impossibility of knowing Perisic’s precise intention.

It was, therefore, demonstrably wrong to change the decision on the VAR evidence.


The time taken is not necessarily relevant and the ref does not have the liberty of everything else you mention.

Sure it was contentious, I just don't see the level of outrage.


It was the wrong decision, a basic error and you would expect better from a referee who is meant to be one of the world's best.
He gave it because he chose to interpret the downward motion of the arm as 'deliberate'. But the reason the arm was moving downwards was because the player was landing - it's a basic natural movement, no one lands with their hands still pointing in the air. It's just common sense to understand, but sometimes in highly pressurized situations common sense goes missing.


Although he was still jumping up when the he hit the ball. He watched it all the way from the cross and his arm moved onto its path. This doesn't mean that it was intentional, but despite what the rules state most handball decisions aren't actually "intentional" as it is so difficult to determine. I probably wouldn't have given it, but the discretion is with the ref.

And the "clear and obvious" rule is going to be far too vague and subjective to administer properly.

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 20:39
by The Modernist
Sorry that's nonsense, he couldn't see the flight of the ball at all -the French player was blocking that. There was nothing he could do.

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 20:45
by joklend
I'm not sure if he was completely blocking the view. Anyway, congratutions to France, probably the best performers of the tournament overall.

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 20:46
by The Modernist
Anyway my team of the tournament:
4-3-3

Cortouis (BEL)
Fernandes (RUS) Vida ( CRO) Varane (FRA) Trippier (ENG)
Pogba (FRA) Modric (CRO) De Bruyne (BEL)
Hazard ( BEL), Mbappe (FRA) Peresic (CRO)

Subs: Pickford, Maguire, Kante, Kagawa, Cavani

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 21:34
by PENK
The Modernist wrote:Anyway my team of the tournament:
4-3-3

Cortouis (BEL)
Fernandes (RUS) Vida ( CRO) Varane (FRA) Trippier (ENG)
Pogba (FRA) Modric (CRO) De Bruyne (BEL)
Hazard ( BEL), Mbappe (FRA) Peresic (CRO)

Subs: Pickford, Maguire, Kante, Kagawa, Cavani


Some good choices there though you have two right-backs. I’d switch out Fernandes for Hernandez (FRA) or Marcelo and probably Kagawa for Coutinho on the bench. I might even swap Pogba for Matuidi who I think has been consistently excellent and would offer better cover for De Bruyne and Modric.

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 21:38
by PENK
Interesting that Vida is the only Croatian starter who doesn’t play in one of the big western leagues. He’s 29 and has 60 caps so he’s hardly an up-and-comer who’s just broken through. He does look like one of those Eastern European centre-backs who are so hard they’d get sent off after 10 minutes of every game in Spain or England though.

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 22:24
by Nikki Gradual
PENK wrote:He does look like one of those Eastern European centre-backs who are so hard they’d get sent off after 10 minutes of every game in Spain or England though.


:D

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 22:46
by Lord Rother
Darkness_Fish wrote:Not as ropy as Rother's opinions regarding Wilshere, mind you.


:lol:

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 00:56
by mentalist (slight return)
Darkness_Fish wrote:Australia had France looking ropy, until VAR dug them out in their opening game.

The moral winners of the World Cup.

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 03:55
by joklend
Courtois
Trippier - Godin - Varane - Lucas Hernandez
Modric - Pogba - Cheryshev
Hazard - Mbappe - Perisic​
-
Pickford, Vida, Pavard, Borozovic, De Bruyne, Griezmann, Cavani.

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 07:29
by Dennis Testicle
mentalist (slight return) wrote:
Darkness_Fish wrote:Australia had France looking ropy, until VAR dug them out in their opening game.

The moral winners of the World Cup.


Goes with our 2006 Moral Cup when Italy had to cheat their tits off to get past us :lol:

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 09:26
by Toby
Fantastic tournament. International football redeemed pretty much within the space of 4 weeks.

My only concerns are that a) no side outside of Europe has made the final for nearly 20 years and b) there seems to be little or no evidence that, Japan aside, African or Asian sides are making "progress" in terms of getting to the latter stages of the tournament. European teams are dominating it. That's a very small concern it must be said - in general the quality and drama of the games in the latter phases was far more important than having an "even" representation of sides from around the world.

One wonders whether the curse of the winners will affect this French team. On the face of it - they're still young enough for it not to matter, although if I were the president of the French FA, I'd probably move Deschamps on after the Euros.

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 09:36
by Diamond Dog
Toby wrote:My only concerns are that a) no side outside of Europe has made the final for nearly 20 years and


Brazil lost to France in 98 and won it in 2002?

But your point is largely valid.

Maybe with virtually all of the best players in the World eventually ending up playing in Europe, the different qualities of each continents players is being 'rounded off' and we're ending up with a homogoneous 'pan worl footballer' who is, basically, the same as everyone else.

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 09:42
by Toby
Diamond Dog wrote:
Maybe with virtually all of the best players in the World eventually ending up playing in Europe, the different qualities of each continents players is being 'rounded off' and we're ending up with a homogoneous 'pan worl footballer' who is, basically, the same as everyone else.


I think the "texture" of respective footballing cultures is being swallowed up by that. There isn't any mystery left, but that to a certain degree belongs to romantic nostalgia. I mean, Panama really shouldn't have been there in hindsight - they were no better really than a non-league team.

The only change I would personally make is to ban Saudi Arabia permanently from qualifying - although with Qatar, it's going to be easier for them. :x

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 09:43
by Toby
The Qatar World Cup is from Nov 21 to 18 Dec 2022 btw.

Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 09:49
by The Modernist
Toby wrote:Fantastic tournament. International football redeemed pretty much within the space of 4 weeks.

My only concerns are that a) no side outside of Europe has made the final for nearly 20 years and b) there seems to be little or no evidence that, Japan aside, African or Asian sides are making "progress" in terms of getting to the latter stages of the tournament. European teams are dominating it. That's a very small concern it must be said - in general the quality and drama of the games in the latter phases was far more important than having an "even" representation of sides from around the world.

One wonders whether the curse of the winners will affect this French team. On the face of it - they're still young enough for it not to matter, although if I were the president of the French FA, I'd probably move Deschamps on after the Euros.


I was quite impressed by the Senegal side and think with a bit of luck and a kinder draw they could have reached the latter stages.
What's really needed is for these countries to start developing their own coaches so they can form a clearer identity of their own ( it was encouraging that Senegal were managed by a Senegalese). But the problems of infrastructure in Africa is going to be quite a big obstacle.
Japan produced one of the games of the tournament and played much better than any of us were expecting.