World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby PENK » 15 May 2018, 14:46

Toby wrote:I'd probably go along with Martin Samuel's picks.


Pickford, Butland, Pope
Walker, Stones, Maguire, Jones, Trippier, Young, Rose, Smalling;
Henderson, Dier, Delph, Loftus-Cheek, Alli, Lingard, Lallana
Sterling, Vardy, Rashford, Kane


Wilshere has played more than Lallana this year.

Delph hasn't played in midfield; surely someone like Lewis Cook might be a better option? Or even a "surprise" choice like Lookman, who's been really impressive on loan in the Bundesliga?
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 15 May 2018, 15:13

I'd suggest taking Barnes from Burnley too - Sterling isn't really a forward.

Like you I can't see how you could pick Lallana ahead of Delph. Or Tonwsend at Palace, who's never let England down.

I'd take Trent-Arnold too.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Toby » 15 May 2018, 18:31

Neither Wilshire or Hart then.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 16 May 2018, 10:58

Toby wrote:Neither Wilshire or Hart then.



Hart absolutely should not go. Wilshere I would have taken but he can hardly say he forced himself into contention, in all honesty. But how Lallana can be chosen over him (if it was for medical reasons) is bizarre - which makes me think it's for footballing reasons instead.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Toby » 16 May 2018, 13:38

Speculation seems to be that Wilshire's body cannot contend with the intense rigour of tournament football.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 16 May 2018, 13:46

I don;t get that - there are three group games in eleven days.... and then another couple in the next 10 days (if they progress) so that's five games in 21 days.... that doesn't sound any worse than the club commitments at present... indeed, it may well be easier.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Toby » 16 May 2018, 14:18

Goalkeepers: Jack Butland (Stoke), Jordan Pickford (Everton), Nick Pope (Burnley)

Defenders: Trent Alexander-Arnold (Liverpool), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Kyle Walker, John Stones (Manchester City), Harry Maguire (Leicester), Kieran Trippier, Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), Phil Jones, Ashley Young (Manchester United).

Midfielders: Eric Dier, Dele Alli (both Tottenham Hotspur), Jesse Lingard (Manchester United), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), Fabian Delph (Manchester City), Ruben Loftus-Cheek (Chelsea)

Forwards: Jamie Vardy (Leicester), Marcus Rashford (Manchester United), Raheem Sterling (Manchester City), Danny Welbeck (Arsenal) Harry Kane (Tottenham)


I reckon Danny Welbeck can count himself lucky to be in the squad. Great for Alexander-Arnold though, he's been terrific recently. Bold not taking Lallana to a certain extent, but I'm glad that he's chosen fit players. Of course, I'm sure one or two will be injured between now and the tournament starting.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby PENK » 16 May 2018, 14:38

Welbeck has always been one of those odd players who’s better at international than club level, like Miroslav Klose or Peter Crouch, so perhaps worth a place for that; he’ll work hard and offer versatility.

So... will the team look like this?

Butland
Walker-Cahill-Stones
Trippier-Dier-Henderson-Rose
Sterling-Alli
Kane
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Toby » 16 May 2018, 14:41

Think Lingard will start over Alli at the moment.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 16 May 2018, 15:05

PENK wrote:Welbeck has always been one of those odd players who’s better at international than club level, like Miroslav Klose or Peter Crouch, so perhaps worth a place for that; he’ll work hard and offer versatility.

So... will the team look like this?

Butland
Walker-Cahill-Stones
Trippier-Dier-Henderson-Rose
Sterling-Alli
Kane


I think he'll pick Delph over Rose, and may really shock by playing Alexander-Arnold instead of Trippier.

I think Pickford will start.

I think he may well pick Henderson or Dier and not both- and make a place for Loftus-Cheek.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 16 May 2018, 15:11

And Alli/Lingard is a toss up, with neither exciting me.

Because I'd choose Rashford over the pair of them.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Toby » 16 May 2018, 16:28

Yeah I think if A-A does well in the friendlies he can start. His crossing is far better than Tripper.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Lord Rother » 16 May 2018, 20:14

Absolutely laughable.

6 full backs and no creative midfielder.

Please tell me it’s a joke.

Wilshere may not quite be the player I want him to be but he has proved his fitness, and has had a decent enough season.

And then there’s Shelvey who has been in blinding form.

It could be said that both Wilshere and Shelvey have “issues” of one sort or another but they have flair and can open up defences - none of that squad have that ability. (Maybe Loftus-Cheek but I’ve still not seen enough of him.)

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 16 May 2018, 20:38

You know, we've complained in the past with Rooney, Beckham etc etc- how they've been given places in tournaments and shown themselves to be palpably unfit.

I look at Lallana - he's barely kicked a ball when it really mattered in the past four or five months. Wilshere has but can hardly said to have demanded a place in the squad. For instance, can you hand-on-heart say he's been a more effective midfielder than Loftus-Cheek? I've seen them both this season and Loftus-Cheek has consistently played well, in a struggling team playing under pressure. In all honesty, he has earnt his place - I really don;t think Wilshere or Lallana have. I would have taken Wilshere but fully understand why Southgate hasn't. I also don;t think it exactly helped his cause that he gets a recall...and misses both games through injury... that he then recovered from to play for his club, very soon afterwards. These things stick in managers minds.

To return to my initial point - we can't have it all ways. We can't moan about wasted picks in the past and then complain when the manager chooses proven fitness over iffy medical conditions.

I like the squad - it's sticking with principles and trying to move the national team forward for the future. It may not work, but it displays far more logic than any of the past five or six England managers have displayed. I applaud his choices.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Lord Rother » 16 May 2018, 21:16

I know Wilshere hasn’t made himself an automatic selection but I can’t understand the thinking in leaving both him and Shelvey at home and taking 6 full backs.

And then having Livermore on standby and not the 2 aforementioned.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Toby » 16 May 2018, 21:27

Shelvey is the sort of player that looks good on Match of the Day - but his actual stats aren't that great. Something like 2 goals and 3 assists? Significant issues with his attitude to.

I agree with Pete - this is the sort of squad choice that would have been all but unthinkable even 4 years ago. A manager building a team/squad rather than picking the "best" players and trying to build a team around them. He's gone for fitness and game time as a more important factor than perceived "talent" and I hope it serves him well. It is worth noting that this is our first manager since Hoddle to have significant experience of modern tournaments.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 16 May 2018, 21:33

Because he's not thinking of using Walker as a FB, maybe? And sees Delph as a crossover between Wing Back and Midfield.

So that really only leaves Trippier, TAA and Rose. And Young as a wing back only (by that I mean I do not see him using Young or Delph as conventional left backs in a four man defence).

Livermore is a weird one - but I'm pretty sure it will emerge that both Wilshere & Lallana were offered the choice as 'reserves' but turned it down.

Shelvey certainly has the talent but... he's a red card in the making and has shown a tendency in the past to completely switch off and not do the defensive stuff. In a team that is unlikely to have masses of possession - that would have been a concern.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Lord Rother » 17 May 2018, 10:28

Oh well, I haven’t been optimistic about England’s chances at a tournament since the 70s so I’m probably just getting in there with my pessimism early!

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Toby » 17 May 2018, 11:15

I think we have a reasonable chance of the quarter-finals. By all accounts Panama and Tunisia shouldn't be too difficult to beat, even if it's 1-0 both times. Belgium will be different, but here's hoping that we've accrued six points by then and have a chance to rest some players.

We then face one of Senegal, Colombia or Poland before what is likely to be either Brazil or Germany.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 18 May 2018, 11:11

From the BBC today :

Wilshere, who has had an injury-plagued career, has left out despite making 38 appearances for Arsenal in the 2017-18 season, including 12 Premier League starts.

He won the last of his 34 England caps in the Euro 2016 defeat by Iceland.

"It goes without saying, I'm incredibly disappointed," said Wilshere.

"I believe I should be in the squad," he added.

"However, I have to respect the manager's decision and would like to wish the whole squad all the very best for the tournament.

"I will always be an England fan and will be supporting the boys with the rest of the nation."

Southgate defended his decision to omit Wilshere.

"Jack Wilshere has of course been in our thoughts," Southgate said on Thursday.

"We selected him in March, but he hasn't played a game for us.

"We've been pleased with the players who played in November and March. The only midfielder we added is Fabian Delph, who had a fantastic season with the champions.

"Jack had a good spell but was maybe not as effective towards the end of the season. We're very open-minded in terms of what we want."

-----------------------

i think you have the answer there for Wilshere's exclusion.
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