Historically Top Three Foreign Players in UK Football

[Diamond Dog]

I'd think Liam Brady is in with a shout.

[...]

Did Ardiles "open the flood gates" though?

I mean, they were undoubtedly exotic and successful signings. But I don't remember it being the precursor to something of a "flood" in the eighties with foreign players. Clubs in Division 1 certainly had foreign players, but they were very much the exception in those days.

Off the top of my head..


Craig Johnston, Mirandinha, Frans Thijssen, Arnold Muhren, Jan Molby, Hans van Breukelen, Bruce Grobelaar, Johnny Metgod, Pat van den Hauwe, Jesper Olsen & Eric Thorsvedt.

That doesn't suggest to me that they were pioneering at all. British clubs could still buy English players without suffering a premium price tag because the lure was to Italy. Like all things, it changed with the Premiership and Sky.

Sorry, Toby but of all the players you mention, only one - Craig Johstone whose signing for Middlesborough in 1977 hardly set the world alight at the time - pre-dates Ardiles and Villa. Let's also not forget that having come to Spurs fresh from the squad that won the 78 World Cup, the two were the highest-profile foreign players to have ever signed for English clubs at that time.

If anything, the UK debut dates for the players whose names you quote above just prove that the signings of A and V opened the floodgates...

Arnold Muhren (UK debut 1978)

Frans Thijssen (UK debut 1979)

Bruce Grobbleaar (UK debut 1979)

Johnny Metgod (UK Debut 1984)

Jan Molby (UK debut 1984)

Jesper Olson (UK debut 1984)

Mirandinha (UK debut 1987)

Eric Thorsvedt (UK debut 1989)

[KeithPratt]

My point is that 10 to 15 players in 13 years is hardly a floodgate.

[...]

My point is that 10 to 15 players in 13 years is hardly a floodgate.

Sorry, T, but you're the one who brought up the figure of 13 years - not sure from where as nowhere in any of my posts on this thread has the figure been mentioned.

Just to recap, my first post on the thread said that A and V were "the initial trickle in what eventually mutated into a flood of foreign players" which it undoubtedly has.

[KeithPratt]

This is getting pointless. Someone else pointed to Ardiles and Villa being important in context of foreign players playing in Britain - my initial response was that the statistics show that they weren't given that the number of players who followed were insignificant until Premiership money began to make an impact. Discussion over.

[...]

This is getting pointless. Someone else pointed to Ardiles and Villa being important in context of foreign players playing in Britain - my initial response was that the statistics show that they weren't given that the number of players who followed were insignificant until Premiership money began to make an impact. Discussion over.

Why don't you go back and read the thread title again? The topic isn't about the Premier League - much as you have tried to make it so - it's about UK (presumably English) football.

Despite your claim to the contrary above you quoted no statistics about foreign players in Britain - there are none that I could find via a quick Google search. What you did post were your own largely incorrect "off the top of my head" responses (Pat Van der Hauwe was foreign! Really?) that bore no relation to the gist of the post I originally wrote which clearly said "initial" and "eventually".

You're right though, If no one here is allowed to offer an opinion without your changing the goal posts (no pun intended) to suit your own ends, the discussion is indeed over.

FWIW, the someone else who posted the original A and V thread was me.

[...]

Sorry DP

[KeithPratt]

There were foreign players before Ardiles and Villa. Bert Trautmann being the most obvious and famous one. What i said is that there was an element of the exotic about them, but i don't think they heralded much of a change in the numbers of foreign players in the British game. In fact, until Juninho in 1996 there was not another successful South American import and even after that, only Gilberto Silva and Sergio Aguero could be considered a success, alongside Lucas Leiva to a lesser extent. And the numbers of foreign players in the British game was a trickle until Premiership money took hold.

I am merely refuting your suggestion in the wider context of successful players in the Premiership that they made a significant impact.

[...]

There were foreign players before Ardiles and Villa. Bert Trautmann being the most obvious and famous one. What i said is that there was an element of the exotic about them, but i don't think they heralded much of a change in the numbers of foreign players in the British game. In fact, until Juninho in 1996 there was not another successful South American import and even after that, only Gilberto Silva and Sergio Aguero could be considered a success, alongside Lucas Leiva to a lesser extent. And the numbers of foreign players in the British game was a trickle until Premiership money took hold.

I am merely refuting your suggestion in the wider context of successful players in the Premiership that they made a significant impact.

Read the thread title, T, as pointed out in my earlier post it's not just about the premiership.

At no point did I claim that there were foreign players in England before V and A. All I said was they were the first high-profile players to move here - and you can't really get more high profile than coming straight from a world cup winning team.

You think V & A had no long-term impact on the English game, I think they showed clubs what was possible in terms of looking further afield for talent.

At this point, suggest it's probably more productive to just agree to disagree.

[borofan]

Middlesborough

MIDDLESBROUGH

[KeithPratt]

WHERE?

[Penk!]

until Juninho in 1996 there was not another successful South American import and even after that, only Gilberto Silva and Sergio Aguero could be considered a success, alongside Lucas Leiva to a lesser extent.

Five minutes with a Wikipedia list brings up these names to disprove that point:

Zabaleta
Arca
Lanzini
Mascherano
Maxi Rodriguez
Tevez
Coutinho
David Luiz
Fernandinho
Firmino
Ramires
Willian
Suarez
Alexis Sanchez
Asprilla
Rodallega
Valencia
Solano
Poyet
Rondon

[KeithPratt]

yeah you're right there (lord how did I forget all those players, esp Suarez and Tevez). OK, my point is that until relatively recently, South American imports weren't hugely successful

Given the longevity of playing spells at their clubs, I'd say that Poyet, Solano and Arca were successful in the post Juninho period.

Asprilla wasn't, a hat-trick against Barcelona aside, he is cited as one of the causes of Newcastle's failure to win the Premiership and he was never going to stay long. Robinho a classic example of a South American flop.

Certainly, the number of South american successes has improved in the last decade, the period in which most of those players listed have played in the Premiership. I'd argue against Rodallega, Enner Valencia & Maxi Rodriguez being successes too.

[Penk!]

I meant Antonio Valencia. He and Rodallega are not stars but they both had long careers in the Premier League and both are regarded as effective job-doers. Maxi Rodriguez definitely had flashes at Liverpool and I think a lot of people thought he was underused.