FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

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Diamond Dog
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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby Diamond Dog » 19 May 2015, 08:56

I already said all that, keep up Bhoy.
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby bhoywonder » 19 May 2015, 09:14

Yes, I know. I'm allowed to say it too though. If lots of people say that racism exists and is bad then it's more likely to sink in than if one person says it and everyone else just quietly agrees :)

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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby Diamond Dog » 19 May 2015, 09:29

Good point well made.
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby Tonto Papadopoulos » 20 May 2015, 17:38

bhoywonder wrote:I think some people have a different understanding of racism than others. Black people do not have less ability to do anything that white people, nor do they have less experience of doing things than white people do, unless, of course, they are denied the opportunity to gain that experience. Racism isn't always open – it very often isn't even recognised by those who perpetrate it. But it exists.


Quite. Racism is an invisible "force" in society holding back a certain section of that society. Sometimes it manifests itself as a visible "act of racism" but it's always there whether you perceive it or not.
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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby Diamond Dog » 20 May 2015, 19:18

I already said all that. :x
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby Dr Markus » 21 May 2015, 14:30

K wrote:
Dr Markus wrote:
K wrote:Go pick on Markus, it's what you like to do.



He does? um.....ok.


You rise above it but he likes the odd sly dig at the Irish in general and occasionally you.


Meh he's harmless like others on here.
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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby C » 23 May 2015, 09:59

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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby Diamond Dog » 05 Jun 2015, 16:32

Anyhow, I fancy continuing this particular thread, as Skope has a week or two to think of reasons why non white managers are statistically six times less likely (when adjusted as a % of overall candidates) to become a top flight manager in the EPL, than their white counterparts.
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby 'skope » 05 Jun 2015, 18:44

Diamond Dog wrote:Anyhow, I fancy continuing this particular thread, as Skope has a week or two to think of reasons why non white managers are statistically six times less likely (when adjusted as a % of overall candidates) to become a top flight manager in the EPL, than their white counterparts.


pete, i'm not sure what you're getting at, but i absolutely refuse to believe that the lack of black managers in the english game has anything to do with racism in this day and age. however, i'd be a fool not to see that managers in the professional game are predominantly white, by some margin.

do you have statistics on the percentage of white/black men who take and complete their coaching badges?

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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby Diamond Dog » 05 Jun 2015, 18:47

No but I'm sure it's available. Still, I'm not sure what difference that would make - the same criteria applies. Either you're suggesting the black guys are too lazy and/or stupid to qualify as coaches/progress to management. Well, unless you can provide an alternative reason why?
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby 'skope » 05 Jun 2015, 19:02

Diamond Dog wrote:Either you're suggesting the black guys are too lazy and/or stupid to qualify as coaches/progress to management.


jeez :roll:

come back to this thread when you've got something constructive to say, pete.

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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby Diamond Dog » 05 Jun 2015, 19:11

'skope wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:Either you're suggesting the black guys are too lazy and/or stupid to qualify as coaches/progress to management.


jeez :roll:

come back to this thread when you've got something constructive to say, pete.


Well what are you suggesting then - you know, how do you explain the huge discrepancy in numbers?

Instead of fumbling around looking for an argument to endorse your prejudice, prove you don't have one... by answering the question...I've stated quite clearly why I think proportionally non white managers are disadvantaged when progressing to managing....because I can see no other reason, besides endemic racism. Let's hear your reasons - and then we can debate the two viewpoints.
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby 'skope » 05 Jun 2015, 19:20

Diamond Dog wrote:
'skope wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:Either you're suggesting the black guys are too lazy and/or stupid to qualify as coaches/progress to management.


jeez :roll:

come back to this thread when you've got something constructive to say, pete.


Well what are you suggesting then - you know, how do you explain the huge discrepancy in numbers?

Instead of fumbling around looking for an argument to endorse your prejudice, prove you don't have one... by answering the question...I've stated quite clearly why I think proportionally non white managers are disadvantaged when progressing to managing....because I can see no other reason, besides endemic racism. Let's hear your reasons - and then we can debate the two viewpoints.


pete, i really don't know why it is that more black managers are not in the game, but i will not swallow the racism argument.

rio at west ham, king at spurs, henry at arsenal, makalele at chelsea. i'm sure that if any of them had the desire and skills to manage, they would be welcomed with open arms by both the fans and the owners to step up to the plate.

your view is too simplistic, really it is. i expected something better and more thought-out from you. instead you are just taking the easy option.

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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby Diamond Dog » 05 Jun 2015, 19:31

Far from it. I followed this closely in American Football, back when there wasn't a black head coach in the NFL. And those that said it was 'just a coincidence' used similar arguments - why didn't black guys get to be Quarterbacks (the position most likely to be associated with advancement to Head Coach at the time)? The same lazy arguments you are (surreptitiously) forwarding - re non whites % of coaching credentials. Exactly the same prejudiced views, with exactly similar results. Until they introduced The Rooney rule - whereby each head coaching/ co-ordinator position had to have at least one minority candidate interviewed.

Have a guess what - the level of minority coaches shot up, almost instantaneously. Why do you think that was? Because the non whites saw at least a semblance of a level playing field, and took the opportunity - instead of being debarred as a matter of course.

Now, over to you. We're all still waiting for your view - as opposed to calling mine simplistic when, in fact, it was based very clearly on evidence.
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby 'skope » 05 Jun 2015, 19:35

Diamond Dog wrote:in fact, it was based very clearly on evidence.


pete, i am not going to argue with the evidence. clearly there aren't as many black managers as there should be in the professional game. that is beyond dispute.

all i'm saying is that i don't believe that it has got anything to do with racism.

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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby Pansy Puff » 05 Jun 2015, 19:47

Then the only possible explanation is that black people are less competent than white people.
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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby 'skope » 05 Jun 2015, 19:53

K wrote:Then the only possible explanation is that black people are less competent than white people.


is it now! you thick cunt.

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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby Rayge » 05 Jun 2015, 20:10

K wrote:Then the only possible explanation is that black people are less competent than white people.



Actually the more likely explanation is that ’skope and pete have a different concept of what constitutes endemic and /or institutional racism.
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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby Pansy Puff » 05 Jun 2015, 20:52

Rayge wrote:
K wrote:Then the only possible explanation is that black people are less competent than white people.



Actually the more likely explanation is that ’skope and pete have a different concept of what constitutes endemic and /or institutional racism.


I imagine that skope uses that argument to excuse his racism. He'll say he's "colour blind" next.
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Re: FA told Graham Taylor not to pick too many black players for England

Postby Rayge » 05 Jun 2015, 21:09

K wrote:
Rayge wrote:
K wrote:Then the only possible explanation is that black people are less competent than white people.



Actually the more likely explanation is that ’skope and pete have a different concept of what constitutes endemic and /or institutional racism.


I imagine that skope uses that argument to excuse his racism.


He's no more a racist than a carnivore.
It seems to me that he's thinking (mistakingly) that Pete's saying that there is a general hostility toward black people in football and that racists at the club or in the support are keeping the numbers of black managers down, while I think Pete's point is that there is a cultural structure of racism (overt 50 years and less ago, largely disavowed now on a personal level, but lingering in the structures and traditions of the game) that inhibits black players from attempting to pursue a career in management and those in a position to appoint managers from taking on or considering black candidates. In that reading, they're both right.
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