England Cricket Team Thread

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Lord Rother
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Lord Rother » 03 Sep 2018, 13:18

Diamond Dog wrote:
Lord Rother wrote:With his recent record and if “there’s nothing left in the tank” as he says himself then he shouldn’t play at The Oval.

There is too much of this soft sentimental thinking when it comes to retirement issues. We should just play the best team for the circumstances which is this game and the future. Cook has had his day, sad, but time to move on with positivity.


And what would we gain from putting someone in there in a series where, as we know, not one opener so far (that's 16 innings) has managed to make a half century? Setting him up for failure, in my eyes. As the series is won, I think Cook deserves a send off. He's certainly earnt it.


Knowing Cook (well I don’t, but a friend does) I really think he would rather not have all the fuss of a “send off”.

Who knows, he may have had the “well-meaning” ECB putting a bit of pressure on him in order to bolster the gate for the dead-rubber.

Hush my cynical mouth!

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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Diamond Dog » 03 Sep 2018, 13:23

Lord Rother wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:
Lord Rother wrote:With his recent record and if “there’s nothing left in the tank” as he says himself then he shouldn’t play at The Oval.

There is too much of this soft sentimental thinking when it comes to retirement issues. We should just play the best team for the circumstances which is this game and the future. Cook has had his day, sad, but time to move on with positivity.


And what would we gain from putting someone in there in a series where, as we know, not one opener so far (that's 16 innings) has managed to make a half century? Setting him up for failure, in my eyes. As the series is won, I think Cook deserves a send off. He's certainly earnt it.


Knowing Cook (well I don’t, but a friend does) I really think he would rather not have all the fuss of a “send off”.

Who knows, he may have had the “well-meaning” ECB putting a bit of pressure on him in order to bolster the gate for the dead-rubber.

Hush my cynical mouth!


I did think that :) I'm pretty sure he would have had talks with the ECB etc before the announcement - you have to assume it was agreed as the best policy.

As I said, who would they promote to fill those shoes at such short notice, realistically?
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Lord Rother » 03 Sep 2018, 13:50

As has been said before, I think Rory Burns is probably next in line.

I have a daft / somewhat illogical little thought in my mind that they could try to turn Bairstow into an opener.

Give him more responsibility and it just might help him eliminate some of those silly dismissals. We KNOW he has the skills to be a top Test batsman (because he’s done it) but we are over-blessed with middle order aggressors....

I dunno. It’s a thought, anyway.

That said, it occurs to me that Stokes has shown an ability to hunker down and play the long game. Can’t really see him as an opener but maybe he is actually more suited than Jonny.

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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Diamond Dog » 03 Sep 2018, 13:59

There is a part of me that quite likes the ides of Stokes at three and returning Root to four.

But opening is now a real headache, to put it mildly. Many would say drop Jennings and that then leaves us with a completely new pair at the top of the order. Not ideal.
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby WG Kaspar » 03 Sep 2018, 17:54

Cook is probably my favorite England player and that's down to being not the best or most talented player England has had in the last 10-15 years (that's Anderson) but because he's someone who is limited technically but always found his way out of slumps due to his mental strength. And he was the best batsman in the world for 2 or 3 years between 2010 and 2012. I will always remember how under the pump he was as a captain especially after the 2013/4 Ashes and how close he was at quitting after losing to India at Lords, only to come back and win that series and pretty much start growing into his role from then on. He was a draw away from leading England to hold all 9 bilateral series before losing to Pakistan at the Oval. He may not have been the greatest captain (more Ponting than Waugh) but what he has achieved as a leader and as an opening batsman has been impressive. Even now when he's clearly floundering he's still miles better than his opening partner and he'll certainly be missed.
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Lord Rother » 03 Sep 2018, 19:11

I’m sorry but it is nonsense to suggest that Cook been “miles better than his opening partner” this summer.

Cook’s average is 15.57, Jennings is 18.57.

Cook has in fact been pretty rubbish for quite a while, with just the occasional epic innings to admire.

In the last year his scores have been:

11,23,10,17,2,7,37,16,7,14,244*,39,10,5,2,2,14,70,1,46,13,0,21,29,17,17,12

That is awful.

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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby WG Kaspar » 03 Sep 2018, 19:29

Yeah I may have overstated his contributions of late, still it felt that if one of them was going to go on to make a score of sorts it wouldn't be Jennings.
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Lord Rother » 03 Sep 2018, 20:33

Ok, fair enough.

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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby PENK » 08 Sep 2018, 13:06

What a performance from Jos Buttler, yet again. England’s man of the series?
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Lord Rother » 08 Sep 2018, 13:12

Probably.

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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Copehead » 09 Sep 2018, 19:47

I have to say Shami vs Cook this afternoon was one of the greatest bowler vs batsmen battles I have ever seen. Not a great deal of atmospheric help for the bowler but he seemed to put the ball in the right place every single delivery, he should have had Cook out 5 times, 10 times, but it never took an edge and Cook moved serenely on as the best opening batsman of the series by a large margin.

I would beg him to come out of retirement for the next couple of Summers, just give him anything he wants to play a few more tests because his replacements are not there.

Jennings looks like Hollywood's idea of an opening batsman, but he hasn't made a mark. Surely we have better than another looks the part Saffer?
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby mentalist (slight return) » 10 Sep 2018, 05:41

So who's going to take care of the ball now that sweat free Ally won't be around?
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby PENK » 10 Sep 2018, 10:56

I’m assuming that’s what Rashid is there for.

Oh, and perhaps to convince Moeen he’s not the number one spinner, as he never bowls well when he thinks he is.
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Copehead » 10 Sep 2018, 13:04

That's the 100 up. 5th highest scoring batsman of all time, highest scoring opening batsman of all time and highest scoring left hander.

I think we can put to bed the questions about how great he was now. He is the greatest ever left hander, opening batsman and English batsman.
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Diamond Dog » 10 Sep 2018, 13:13

Copehead wrote:That's the 100 up. 5th highest scoring batsman of all time, highest scoring opening batsman of all time and highest scoring left hander.

I think we can put to bed the questions about how great he was now. He is the greatest ever left hander, opening batsman and English batsman.



In the modern era, it's never been in doubt really has it?

I think Hutton may have a say about greatest opener and batsman though.
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Copehead » 10 Sep 2018, 13:26

Diamond Dog wrote:
Copehead wrote:That's the 100 up. 5th highest scoring batsman of all time, highest scoring opening batsman of all time and highest scoring left hander.

I think we can put to bed the questions about how great he was now. He is the greatest ever left hander, opening batsman and English batsman.



In the modern era, it's never been in doubt really has it?

I think Hutton may have a say about greatest opener and batsman though.


Always difficult to compare different times, especially as England had fewer teams who could challenge them in those days, these days practically any test nation can give them a game and will usually beat them at home. Winning away from home is now pretty significant whatever the team are.

But greatest Englishman of the modern era is a minimum.
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Diamond Dog » 10 Sep 2018, 13:28

I have no problem with that at all.
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Copehead » 10 Sep 2018, 13:54

Diamond Dog wrote:I have no problem with that at all.


We've been lucky to be able to watch a team with him and Anderson in as they will always have a chance.
We won't be able to watch that much longer, well after today really. Anderson must be getting near the end too although he is still our best bowler by a distance.
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Diamond Dog » 10 Sep 2018, 14:06

Copehead wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:I have no problem with that at all.


We've been lucky to be able to watch a team with him and Anderson in as they will always have a chance.
We won't be able to watch that much longer, well after today really. Anderson must be getting near the end too although he is still our best bowler by a distance.


I know everyone always talks about Anderson needing the conditions etc but, even in unfavourable circumstances, he rarely gets shredded. He is a wonderful bowler all the time, just absolutely unplayable when the right conditions exist. At 35 there can't be too much left in the tank but you'd think he'd like to finish off with a home Ashes series (next season), wouldn't you?
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby borofan » 10 Sep 2018, 18:09

Diamond Dog wrote:
Copehead wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:I have no problem with that at all.


We've been lucky to be able to watch a team with him and Anderson in as they will always have a chance.
We won't be able to watch that much longer, well after today really. Anderson must be getting near the end too although he is still our best bowler by a distance.


I know everyone always talks about Anderson needing the conditions etc but, even in unfavourable circumstances, he rarely gets shredded. He is a wonderful bowler all the time, just absolutely unplayable when the right conditions exist. At 35 there can't be too much left in the tank but you'd think he'd like to finish off with a home Ashes series (next season), wouldn't you?

Anderson said a few weeks ago that he wants to carry on for another 3 years. Not sure that he can last that long, but gives an idea of what he reckons he's got left in the tank. Undoubtedly one of the most skilful seam bowlers there's ever been. Remember how well he bowled last time England played Pakistan in UAE - absolutely nothing in the pitches for him, but bowled so tightly that all Pakistan did was see him off and wait for the spinners.
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