England Cricket Team Thread

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borofan
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby borofan » 20 Jul 2017, 20:52

Lord Rother wrote:
borofan wrote:
Lord Rother wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing Rory Burns opening - he's a grafter. Drop Jennings to 3.

Samit Patel for Liam Dawson. (But they won't bin Dawson yet, they'll wait until he's proved beyond doubt, what everyone else can see, dragging the team's performance down as he goes, that he has nothing much to offer at this level.

Not sure that Patel does either, but at least he is in banging form right now.

I like Wood a lot - if he's not injured (and Woakes isn't fit yet) then I'd leave him in. If neither are fit, what about a Curran or Overton? We do need to be looking at the next generation quicks.

Burns? If you must pick an opener from the brown hatters, it has to be Stoneman. Agree on Samit - I've been saying that for weeks (if we must have a non-spinning slow left arm dobber). Personally, I'd bring in another specialist batsman to bat at 5, and shuffle Bairstow, Stokes and Moeen down a place. Who that batsman would be, I really don't have a clue.


Why does it have to be Stoneman?

He is 30 with a 1st class average of 34, Burns is 26 with an average of 42.

Why quote career averages and ages? Not slightly relevant to current form. Point is, Stoneman has been in the form of his life this season, and was almost as good last (and IMHO, is a better player). As it turns out, they've gone for Westley (who I don't think I've ever seen play), and Malan. Hope they both play and Dawson is left out, so making the team more balanced. I'd always play 5 specialist batsmen, as we've got 3 all-rounders to bat 6,7, and 8 (and 9 when Woakes is fit).
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Lord Rother » 22 Jul 2017, 01:51

Ok so Westley it is but wouldn't be a bad idea to do your research first.

Not only is Burns the younger man, with a significantly higher career average, he also has a better County Championship average that Stoneman in the current season.

Form of his life this season maybe, but still not as good as Burns.

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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Duncan V » 22 Jul 2017, 11:36

I'm not sure what Stoneman has done to be ignored like this, but it's difficult to have sympathy for players who join a mercenary, cheque-book, joyless team like Surrey just to boost selection chances. He'd still be my first choice, though. Dawson is a decent County player, and I wouldn't completely give up on him, but I'm not sure that he's right for the rest of this series.

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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby borofan » 22 Jul 2017, 19:10

Lord Rother wrote:Ok so Westley it is but wouldn't be a bad idea to do your research first.

Not only is Burns the younger man, with a significantly higher career average, he also has a better County Championship average that Stoneman in the current season.

Form of his life this season maybe, but still not as good as Burns.

Better than Burns. The reason Burns has a better career average than Stoneman is that Burns has spent his whole career batting on roads at The Oval, whereas until this year, Stoneman played on much more bowler-friendly pitches at Chester-le-Street. Not sure what their relative ages have to do with it.
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Lord Rother » 22 Jul 2017, 19:31

Ok forget the fact that Burns has a better career average than Stoneman and a better season average where they are playing in the same team.... (oh, and has taken more catches this season...) ;)

If you had 2 players of identical numbers and one was 26, the other 30, which one would you consider the better selection for a debut cap?

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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby borofan » 23 Jul 2017, 22:48

Lord Rother wrote:Ok forget the fact that Burns has a better career average than Stoneman and a better season average where they are playing in the same team.... (oh, and has taken more catches this season...) ;)

If you had 2 players of identical numbers and one was 26, the other 30, which one would you consider the better selection for a debut cap?

Like I said, I don't see why you think age is relevant here. It's not like they're pushing 40. I think Stoneman is the better player, you don't. Fair enough.
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby PENK » 28 Jul 2017, 17:22

Roland-Jones seems a smart selection!
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Lord Rother » 30 Jul 2017, 13:25

This will be an interesting next session and declaration for Root to make. We will see how his intentions differ to Cook's if at all.

I would suggest we approach it in limited overs fashion for 20 overs in order to get SA in for 20 mins before tea.

We are already 331 in front so even if it goes a bit pear shaped and we lose wickets quickly they are not going to chase down 400+ here.

But I suspect we will have a target of 450 as the lead and just plod on at 3 to 4 an over until that is reached.

We shall see.

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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Lord Rother » 30 Jul 2017, 15:32

I know a captain's sole focus is the win but, looking at the bigger picture, these delayed declarations do Test cricket no favours.

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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby borofan » 30 Jul 2017, 17:59

Not going too bad so far... 65-4.
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby PENK » 05 Aug 2017, 12:36

Huge shame for Bairstow there. I've criticised him quite a bit for not going on to make big scores but nobody can blame him here. He's taken sole responsibility today for turning a reasonable England score into what looks a very good one given the pitch and conditions.
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Diamond Dog » 05 Aug 2017, 13:15

But a poor choice of shot for that occasion... wait for the right ball, score the single, get your ton....
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Lord Rother » 06 Aug 2017, 15:50

Really hard batting conditions (especially for the lefties).

This current lead of 270+ will be more than enough to see off SA.

Sorry if it's stating the obvious but Jennings and Malan do not look Test class.

Neither did Dawson or Ballance so, even if it's not been all success stories, I guess the selectors have learned a bit about those who may have been considered Next in line at the start of the season.

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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Lord Rother » 07 Aug 2017, 21:28

Another huge win, but most pleasingly today Haseeb Hameed unbeaten on 77 off 219 balls for Lancs.

Find it hard to believe he won't be opening against West Indies next week.

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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby WG Kaspar » 07 Aug 2017, 22:16

Hales is bound to get another chance
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Lord Rother » 08 Aug 2017, 06:44

Indeed, put him in down the order. Not a Test opener but ideal for the No 5.

Cook
Hameed
Westley
Root
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

That looks like a team for The Ashes to me.

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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Diamond Dog » 08 Aug 2017, 08:05

I really think Jennings deserves to be kept in - he clearly has the ability, he's still only played a dozen or so Tests.... we really shouldn't be firing him out without an obvious replacement. .
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby PENK » 08 Aug 2017, 09:03

Hameed is the obvious replacement if he is back in form. Jennings has had a go and I imagine that he'll get another chance in the future if he can work on his technique. This was his first full series, and he's still young and has time to improve.
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby borofan » 08 Aug 2017, 17:31

Diamond Dog wrote:I really think Jennings deserves to be kept in - he clearly has the ability, he's still only played a dozen or so Tests.... we really shouldn't be firing him out without an obvious replacement. .

Trouble is, at present, Jennings is a walking wicket. I shudder to think how he'd fare against Starc, Hazlewood and Pattinson in his current form. He's got clear technical problems that he needs to go away and work on.
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Re: England Cricket Team Thread

Postby Nikki Gradual » 08 Aug 2017, 19:22

Lord Rother wrote:Indeed, put him in down the order. Not a Test opener but ideal for the No 5.

Cook
Hameed
Westley
Root
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

That looks like a team for The Ashes to me.


Good list, but still not convinced by two and three; we need Bell 2.0 at three and, if not quite a Chris Tavare, then someone duller than Hameed at two because after Root its a 20-20 team. A brilliant one, but really scary in a test when it goes wrong. England have been weak at two, three and five all series and I don't see any clear answers bumbling around the county game at the moment. After all, Hales' forte is smashing 95 from 30 rather than steadying the ship after a top order collapse. Then again, four to eight is just so damned exciting on your list that the answer is probably to just brain-train them how to play to the circumstances when necessary.
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