England Cricket Team Thread

[mentalist (slight return)]

I think 4 tests would have been enough. Our lot aren't putting ourselves through the indignity of a 5th! Now Cook's going to relinquish the captaincy, Bayliss will be sacked, and Root and Stokes are going to get into an ungainly punchup.

[Penk!]

Pathetic display from England today. Infantile batting.

[Lord Rother]

It's been said before but Jeez, the lack of application and mental strength bugs me.

Moeen Ali has had a very good year with the bat but his ridiculous dismissal (again) should lead the selectors tomsay "sorry Mo, that's one time too many. We're going to have a good look at Dawson in 2017, so back to County Cricket please. Thanks and good luck."

To be fair, although the worst IMO, Moeen isn't the only one of course. But Cook should by now have taken the culprits aside for giving their wickets away (it's happened so many times) and given them a massive bollocking. But there's no chance he will have done that, just not his style.

He'll have been reflective and relied on quiet chats with a half frown on his face, lacking real conviction, always concerned that he might have someone point the finger at him later on. Real leaders don't give a fuck what others might say later, they get their points across in no uncertain terms so everyone knows what their leader demands of them. Followers WANT that from their leader.

He's a splendid batsman, a really really good man, but not a real leader of men, and not a real tactician.

And I'm not sure Bayliss is the right man to manage the Test Squad. (One day squads yes.)

Strauss - you have some work to do.

[Diamond Dog]

I think there's some massive over reaction to this tour. The end of a long year, against a good Indian team who are a tough tough ask on home ground.

Yes we capitulated in the last couple of Tests but we're not the first nor will we be the last.

I didn't like Cook suggesting the captaincy may not be for him long term, however - sent all the wrong signals. As you say i'm not sure he's all that a a tactician anyway, so maybe it's time to move on from him in that role. I don't quite see what getting rid of Bayliss will achieve though.

[Lord Rother]

I think you're wrong mate.

We are a hugely talented bunch of players who are simply not prepared to apply themselves as a TEAM. And I would suggest that is because there is no real leadership, no real plan.

There is NO excuse for Moeen Ali to play that sort of shot when the situation demands the complete opposite. Or for Bairstow to flick a ball in the air.

Or for Root to sweep a straight ball.

Or for Cook to play at a ball from his nemesis that is going to miss 2 more sets of stumps.

The quality of the opposition is irrelevant in these situations. We gave it away through lack of application.

The fact that we are not the first or last and that India are nigh on unbeatable on home soil is irrelevant. We showed the same weakness and abject ineptitude in Bangladesh as well. 10 wickets in one session? Weak and pathetic.

And yet individual players' stats are excellent this year. Bairstow's runs. Root's runs. Ali's runs. Cook's had a pretty average time but still turned in a decent average. Hameed a success. Jennings a success. Woakes a success. Rashid improving. Stokes turns in some brilliant performances.

But it's like we can't do enough as a Team - together - at the important times - to consistently win or draw games in tough circumstances.

I will be absolutely astonished if Cook doesn't resign from the captaincy.

[Penk!]

I think there's some massive over reaction to this tour. The end of a long year, against a good Indian team who are a tough tough ask on home ground. Yes we capitulated in the last couple of Tests but we're not the first nor will we be the last.

All that is true and I think I've certainly been perhaps too frustrated at the massive quality gap between our spinners and theirs, for example.

But I also think that looking at the longer term and not just this tour that what Rother says is true, that the England team has serious problems regarding application and leadership. Time and time again we see batsmen throw their wickets away when well-set; look at the figures I posted on the previous page about England's woeful conversion rate compared to other nations. In two tests since then, England batsmen have made a further eight fifties and two hundreds: in keeping with their conversion rate of just over 20%. India's batsmen have made two fifties and five hundreds.

People bang on about Root and Bairstow's talent and yes, they're two of the most naturally talented batsmen in world cricket, Root in particular able to handle any bowling in any conditions and make scoring look easy. But he's made just three hundreds from the last seventeen times he's passed fifty.

Bairstow has scored a lot of runs this year but he's gone eleven tests without a century and in that time has has passed forty twelve times. On just three of those occasions has he made it to sixty. That is really, really poor, I think, whatever excuses you can make for him due to his being shunted around the order.

So if we're looking at the numbers - and it's a numbers game - England's biggest problem (crap spinners aside) is their simple inability to turn starts into big runs. Cook, Root and Bairstow may well have healthy averages if they make 43 and 56 in every match, but someone needs to stay around to support the other batsmen, to set an example, put pressure on the bowlers. There are not enough big runs and not enough big partnerships. They have been distracted by their recent one-day success, maybe, and their judgment has got less reliable. They are lacking leadership and solidity (still so many collapses...). They just struggle against certain types of bowling. I don't know.

What I think is that while it is easy to overreact, it's also too easy to just brush away the issues. There is a problem somewhere and I think that it's in their concentration and application with the bat.

Not to say the bowling is perfect: I think Anderson is on his last legs and they're not sure how to replace him. Ball had a miserable tour and I don't know why he didn't get more opportunities to stake his claim in summer, given Finn's dreadful form. It's tough for quicks in India, though, and only Broad had any real success. Ball deserves another chance next summer.

Six months off from test cricket. Time to reflect and get it sorted out.

[Lord Rother]

Those team and individual conversion numbers are shocking. Good stats though.

[Diamond Dog]

I take your points, both of you.

I think the lack of conversion rates of the batsmen to big scores is a concern. But it's not nearly as much a concern for me as the frankly pathetic spinners situation, or Cook's captaincy.

I think he'll go. I think Cook knew he';d had enough before the Indian series (maybe even Bangladesh). In which case, he really should have moved on then and let the new guy in, to give him a chance ahead of the Ashes next year.

[Penk!]

ICC agree structured test championship

I think this could be a good idea. Give series more structure, make sure all teams are involved, boost the profile of test cricket. I haven't seen much of Ireland or Afghanistan and their results don't suggest they're ready yet - and they wouldn't be involved in the main tournament anyway - but other teams have benefitted from being given the opportunity. For Bangladesh, as well, this could be really good, giving them more experience and regular top-level cricket, and one wonders if the West Indies might knuckle down properly again.

[joels344]

ICC agree structured test championship

I think this could be a good idea. Give series more structure, make sure all teams are involved, boost the profile of test cricket. I haven't seen much of Ireland or Afghanistan and their results don't suggest they're ready yet - and they wouldn't be involved in the main tournament anyway - but other teams have benefitted from being given the opportunity. For Bangladesh, as well, this could be really good, giving them more experience and regular top-level cricket, and one wonders if the West Indies might knuckle down properly again.

This is what Test cricket has needed for years. It provides an incentive for the teams, players and audience to be involved with Test matches. There have been far too many unmotivated Test matches as of lately. It's even gotten to the point in which I only watch the major Test series; The Ashes (try to watch every ball), England vs. India (watch/listen most of it), but other matches with the only incentive being rank status are of zero interest to me.

[Penk!]

And the solution to England's middle-order struggles is... Gary Ballance!

[borofan]

And the solution to England's middle-order struggles is... Gary Ballance!

Best time to give him another run. He's been in sparkling form all season. Unfortunately, the selectors have screwed it up by having him bat at 3 - he NEVER bats at 3 for Yorkshire (you'd think the captain might know this...).

[WG Kaspar]

Maybe his captain doesn't want to bat at 3 himself as he should.
I'm more interested to see how playing two spinners at Lord's will work.

[Penk!]

And the solution to England's middle-order struggles is... Gary Ballance!

Best time to give him another run. He's been in sparkling form all season. Unfortunately, the selectors have screwed it up by having him bat at 3 - he NEVER bats at 3 for Yorkshire (you'd think the captain might know this...).

He's been in sparkling form for Yorkshire forever, but keeps getting found out at international level. Philander, Morkel and Rabada are much more serious propositions than the average county bobbler.

There are other players, like Westley and Stoneman, who must be quite annoyed that they keep getting passed over.

It'd be great if he could transfer his county form onto the international stage against real opposition, but surely it's the last-chance saloon now? Will he get the whole series if he fails in the first one or two tests?

[Penk!]

I'm more interested to see how playing two spinners at Lord's will work.

Two part-time spinners equal one proper spinner is perhaps the thinking...

[Penk!]

Ah, summer sport. Wimbledon, long-running transfer sagas, Joe Root rescuing England from 50/3...

[WG Kaspar]

It's not been the same since Strauss retired.

[Jumper K]

Doesn't look like the captaincy has had a detrimental effect.

[borofan]

I'm more interested to see how playing two spinners at Lord's will work.

Two part-time spinners equal one proper spinner is perhaps the thinking...

If you want a slow left arm trundler who doesn't spin the ball, then why Dawson and not Samit Patel? Samit is just as average a bowler, and a far better batsman who is in the form of his life with the bat.

[Lord Rother]

Good point. But is fitness still a factor?