BCB England football team thread

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The Modernist
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby The Modernist » 15 Nov 2017, 15:02

Rayge wrote:
The Modernist wrote:It's Doug Livermore. What do you expect?


Seeing as he's 70 years old, not much.
The guy trundling around for England is Jake


Even worse.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby PENK » 15 Nov 2017, 18:02

Rayge wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
Toby wrote:Squad

Hart, Pickford, Butland

Stones, Maguire, Cahill, Jones, Gomez, Walker, Trippier, Rose, Bertrand,

Henderson, Loftus-Cheek, Dier, Alli, Lallana, Winks

Kane, Vardy, Rashford


I imagine that at least 3 of those will be injured and out of action by May though.


Hardly any width in there at all.


And only 21 players. Aren't there usually 23? Where's Sterling?

If I cared about England's chances/performance, I wouldn't let Henderson near the squad (Lewis Cook?), Abrahams and/or Solanke would be there in front of Vardy.


Solanke has played 85 goalless minutes of Premier League football in his entire career.
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Goat Boy » 15 Nov 2017, 18:53

:)
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Rayge » 15 Nov 2017, 19:06

PENK wrote:Solanke has played 85 goalless minutes of Premier League football in his entire career.

And has starred in two international tournaments and is obviously already better than Vardy, so where's the probhlem?
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby PENK » 15 Nov 2017, 19:14

You just troll these threads really, don't you?
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Lord Rother » 15 Nov 2017, 19:43

I’ll go with

Hart, Pickford, Butland

Stones, Maguire, Cahill, Jones, Gomez, Walker, Trippier, Rose, Bertrand,

Sterling, Loftus-Cheek, Dier, Alli, Lallana, Wilshere

Kane, Abrahams, Rashford

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Pansy Puff » 15 Nov 2017, 20:35

Erratic though Sterling is, he's scoring goals for fun at City. He has to go.

EDIT: I see him on Rother's list.
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Rayge » 15 Nov 2017, 21:06

PENK wrote:You just troll these threads really, don't you?

Was that directed at me? Always best to quote me if you are. If it wasn't, please ignore the rest of this :D
What do you mean by 'these threads'? Ones about international football? Or something else? I'm assuming the former.
Nah, I wouldn't say I'm a troll here any more than I am on music or NDL threads, I just have a more different point of view about more things than most people. I do genuinely believe that international football, in any age group, is a very different thing from club football, because of the difficulties of building a functioning team from players who regularly play for clubs with specific systems. One of the results of this is that players like Jamie Vardy, deadly if you build a team around supplying him on the counter-attack, either with balls over the top of high-press defences or whipped crosses from the wings, tend to suffer when taken out of a club environment where there are players who can supply those and who have learned to read his runs.
It makes sense to me, given the successes of the under 17s and under 20s, to develop them as a team. Plenty of premier league experience is not strictly necessary if you have technique and sass, as Dele, Winks and Dier have shown, and is secondary in my view to someone being comfortable in the international set-up.
Everyone agrees that England don't have a snowball's of winning in Russia (Putin's probably rigged it already :) ), and may not get out of the group, so leaving behind people like Vardy, the Crock, Cahill, Sturridge and so on, who aren't by any means shit, but are not going to get any better, in favour of a group of technically-gifted and bright youngsters used to playing together, seems a better idea in the long term. As a Spurs supporter, I'm very much pro long-termism.
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby The Modernist » 15 Nov 2017, 21:27

People putting in Solanke and Abrahams when they've barely played at the top level is frankly absurd. Let's just see how they do this season shall we? I had a long argument with Markus about English fans prematurely hyping young talent to absurd levels before they've done anything - turns out he was right.
If you really want an outlier for the England squad, then my suggestion would be Demarai Gray.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby PENK » 15 Nov 2017, 21:30

Well that's a fair point.

I just think it's also a fair point that Dominic Solanke's career consists of a bunch of youth international appearances (if that were anything to go on then Mexico and Switzerland would be the favourites next summer) and one reasonable season in a league where Dirk Kuyt regularly nets 20+ goals, so to say that he is "obviously already better than Vardy" is patently silly, and the last time England took an untried youngster to a World Cup, he spent the whole time sitting in the dugout trying to grow out his bumfluff moustache and then went on to have a distinguished career doing the same on the Arsenal bench.
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Pansy Puff » 15 Nov 2017, 21:34

Phil Foden for England!!
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Rayge » 15 Nov 2017, 23:45

PENK wrote:Well that's a fair point.

I just think it's also a fair point that Dominic Solanke's career consists of a bunch of youth international appearances (if that were anything to go on then Mexico and Switzerland would be the favourites next summer) and one reasonable season in a league where Dirk Kuyt regularly nets 20+ goals, so to say that he is "obviously already better than Vardy" is patently silly, and the last time England took an untried youngster to a World Cup, he spent the whole time sitting in the dugout trying to grow out his bumfluff moustache and then went on to have a distinguished career doing the same on the Arsenal bench.


Leaving aside my personal visceral dislike for the rat-faced racist shit Vardy, I might still argue that Solanke is not so much a 'better' player in terms of what he currently does in club football, but a better fit for the team that they *should* be developing; a team to which Vardy adds little or nothing. 20 touches against Brazil, and none of them particularly useful. He has no game the way the team is set up.
Also, I didn't know he had played in the Eredivise. And 'a bunch of youth international appearances' included winning one European and one world tournament, top scoring in both and voted player of the tournament in the latter. I don't doubt he's the real deal.
And of course as he's a Liverpool player I'm not greatly moved by the thought of him going down the Walcott plughole :)
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby The Modernist » 16 Nov 2017, 00:05

You haven't seen enough of him to have an opinion on what he's like unless you've been following Liverpool and Chelsea reserves. Vardy is a proven goalscorer and England don't have many of them.
This is a ridiculous argument.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Rayge » 16 Nov 2017, 00:14

The Modernist wrote:You haven't seen enough of him to have an opinion on what he's like unless you've been following Liverpool and Chelsea reserves.
This is a ridiculous argument.

I watched the under-20 world Cup.
And of course it's a ridiculous argument (if you mean 'disagreement'). Aren't they all? Isn't that what we do? Grown men disputing the merits of pop records.
Alternatively, if you find my opinion ridiculous, then fair play, but it will take more than ridicule from a Gooner to make me change it ;)
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Lord Rother » 16 Nov 2017, 06:58

The likes of Vardy, Henderson, Cahill and Smalling are never going to feature in a team capable of doing well in a World Cup, so there is no point taking them to Russia when we have players like Maguire, Gomez, Loftus Cheek, Abrahams / Solanke (whichever, should be one of the two) who just might be good enough in tournaments for the next 10 years.

Taking the first 4 names would be typical of the short-termist thinking that has blighted English international football for decades.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Toby » 16 Nov 2017, 09:01

I'm with Rage and Rother. We are not going to win the World Cup so let's take a young team instead. If they feel they have a chance of going, they'll play out of their skins this season to get on the plane.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Goat Boy » 16 Nov 2017, 09:10

I can smell the faint smell of desperation from here.

I think it's absurd that players who have played a handful of games at club level are now being talked of as first choice international players. They haven't even produced one good season amongst them.

Let's see how they things play out over the next few months at least.
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Diamond Dog » 16 Nov 2017, 10:01

Those of us who have been saying it for years are right - taking guys who have had their chance and not done it, simply haven't earnt and don't deserve yet another chance in the World Cup.
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Rayge » 16 Nov 2017, 10:26

Goat Boy wrote:I think it's absurd that players who have played a handful of games at club level are now being talked of as first choice international players. They haven't even produced one good season amongst them.


That's the joy of it. International and club football are different beasts.
Club football at the top level is more rarefied and of a greater quality than international football at the same level, and while there are doubtless many reasons for this, as well as perspectives on why it is happening, at least part of it is because clubs have their players on full-time contacts, can adopt systems, drill players within them, and develop or buy in players who suit that system and put the management structures in place. Of course, international managers can't have that time, and are limited in the players they can choose from, so that continuity is lost. And there are only about 10 competiive matches a year for most of them to work within.
Recognition of that is what has prompted the FA to create the academy system and St George's Park, and to try to establish continuity, and a framework into which developing players can slot, effectively creating (they hope) something like a club atmosphere. It seems to be paying off at youth and under-20 level.
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Goat Boy » 16 Nov 2017, 10:44

Youth and Under 20 mean little I think. If a handful of these players become full internationalists you will be doing well.

I can see the value in giving Maguire a chance for example over a Smalling. I get that. His partnership with Gomez could be promising too but I wouldn’t chuck Cahill out either just because he was part of a crap team in 2014.

I don’t see the point, at this stage, of picking players like Solanke or Abrahams over Vardy for example. Maybe if they impress during the rest of the season they will deserve a call up.

Obviously the likes of Joe Hart should not get anywhere near the team now. Sturridge is a crock. Sterling has disappointed for England but should he be chucked out with the bathwater too?
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