the Spurs thread

Fitba' crazy, fitba' mad. But mostly mad. And angry
User avatar
The Modernist
2018 BCB Cup Champ!
Posts: 12231
Joined: 13 Apr 2014, 20:42

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby The Modernist » 02 Nov 2017, 21:57

The Great Defector wrote:Hope you're right about Levy Ray.


I hope he's wrong. :twisted:

User avatar
Rayge
Posts: 13168
Joined: 14 Aug 2013, 11:37
Location: deepest Devon
Contact:

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby Rayge » 02 Nov 2017, 22:05

The Modernist wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:Hope you're right about Levy Ray.


I hope he's wrong. :twisted:


You know you'd rather have him in charge than Kroenke
In timeless moments we live forever

You can't play a tune on an absolute

Negative Capability...when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, Mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact & reason”

User avatar
The Modernist
2018 BCB Cup Champ!
Posts: 12231
Joined: 13 Apr 2014, 20:42

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby The Modernist » 02 Nov 2017, 22:05

I'd rather have you in charge than Kroenke!

User avatar
The Modernist
2018 BCB Cup Champ!
Posts: 12231
Joined: 13 Apr 2014, 20:42

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby The Modernist » 02 Nov 2017, 22:09

Levy is undoubtedly a shrewd operator, but I don't know how much credit he deserves for your current success, some perhaps, but i wouldn't get too carried away. After all these same qualities weren't able to bring success for a good 14 years or so.
What is becoming quite abundantly clear is you have one of the best managers in the world.

User avatar
Rayge
Posts: 13168
Joined: 14 Aug 2013, 11:37
Location: deepest Devon
Contact:

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby Rayge » 02 Nov 2017, 22:22

The Modernist wrote:Levy is undoubtedly a shrewd operator, but I don't know how much credit he deserves for your current success, some perhaps, but i wouldn't get too carried away. After all these same qualities weren't able to bring success for a good 14 years or so.

Well, it's his (well, ENIC's) long term plan, the decision to go for the new stadium, to invest in the academy, and in the transfer market to concentrate on bringing in young players rather than established stars. the one thing they didn't really have was the right management and coaching structure to potentiate it. And now they have

The Modernist wrote:What is becoming quite abundantly clear is you have one of the best managers in the world.

Yep. And what he has been given is the chance to create a dynasty and take the club forward, something he just wouldn't get anywhere else, so I think he'll stay for a while, unless the wheels fall off.
In timeless moments we live forever

You can't play a tune on an absolute

Negative Capability...when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, Mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact & reason”

User avatar
Rayge
Posts: 13168
Joined: 14 Aug 2013, 11:37
Location: deepest Devon
Contact:

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby Rayge » 02 Nov 2017, 22:24

The Modernist wrote:I'd rather have you in charge than Kroenke!


:lol: :lol:
In timeless moments we live forever

You can't play a tune on an absolute

Negative Capability...when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, Mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact & reason”

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23284
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby Toby » 02 Nov 2017, 22:36

Pochettino needs to win something in the next couple of seasons to cement his work and placate players who might have their heads turned. I hope he does it.

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 66658
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby Diamond Dog » 03 Nov 2017, 10:17

Rayge wrote:Yep. And what he has been given is the chance to create a dynasty ............



Ummm.. whilst i'm full of admiration for what the manager has achieved, I'm failing to see 'a dynasty' thus far... a dynasty is continued over a number of seasons.... something like Liverpool in the 70's and 80's, or Man Utd in the 90's & 00's.... or the New England Patriots in the 00's and 10's... you know... a couple of decades.

I appreciate you saying he's been given the chance to build this dynasty... but he's been at the club three and a half years (which, admittedly, is a long time in the current climate) and hasn't won a single trophy yet. When he's won something, and repeated it a couple of times over the next few years.... then we can talk about dynasties.
1-800-288-8372

User avatar
Rayge
Posts: 13168
Joined: 14 Aug 2013, 11:37
Location: deepest Devon
Contact:

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby Rayge » 03 Nov 2017, 10:45

Diamond Dog wrote:
Rayge wrote:Yep. And what he has been given is the chance to create a dynasty ............



Ummm.. whilst i'm full of admiration for what the manager has achieved, I'm failing to see 'a dynasty' thus far... a dynasty is continued over a number of seasons.... something like Liverpool in the 70's and 80's, or Man Utd in the 90's & 00's.... or the New England Patriots in the 00's and 10's... you know... a couple of decades.

I appreciate you saying he's been given the chance to build this dynasty... but he's been at the club three and a half years (which, admittedly, is a long time in the current climate) and hasn't won a single trophy yet. When he's won something, and repeated it a couple of times over the next few years.... then we can talk about dynasties.


The chance to start is what I said. While I take your point about it not being a dynasty until he's been there a bit longer, every 20-year dynasty starts with three years, hell with one week. How long was Ferguson in the Man U job before he won a championship? And would you not agree that,say, dario gradi created a dynasty at Crewe without ever winning a trophy? What about Greenwood and Bonds at West Ham?

And, not to single you out DD, but I get a whole lot of that 'not won anything' yet rhetoric below the line from non-Spurs supporters. Among the things Spurs have 'won' under Pochettino: more games of football than they have ever won before in a three-season stretch, a couple of golden boots, twice best defensive (!) record in the league, hearts and minds, respect (no mean feat when the concept of 'Spursiness' was so widespread), etc. And he finished above Arsenal. He's easily Spurs' most successful manager since Burkinshaw, and tactically and as a man-manager probably the best in my lifetime (Bill Nicholson, with his eight major trophies was basically carrying on the work of Arthur Rowe).

It's only a personal view, I know, but having seen the side win the League (and double), 6 FA Cups, three European trophies and four league cups, and set several records, I'm not particularly bothered if they never win another in what's left of my lifetime, but I do care a bit about the way they play, and the traditions they supposedly espouse, and this is the first time I've been able to feel real pride about that in about 30 years. Same with the stadium, with the staying in Tottenham (how thrilled I am that we didn't get lumbered with the Stratford White Elephant), and the whole long-term plan which is refreshingly different from most clubs' 'look for a foreign sugar-daddy and spunk their billions up the wall' idea.
In timeless moments we live forever

You can't play a tune on an absolute

Negative Capability...when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, Mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact & reason”

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 66658
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby Diamond Dog » 03 Nov 2017, 10:51

No they're all valid points Ray - and I happen to agree with most of them. I'm a long term admirer of 'the project' at Spurs... and the new stadium is going to be a tremendous success I'm sure.

I'm just a little wary of dynasty talk this early on, that's all. But I fully understand your excitement and, deep down, I'd love to see Spurs take on the Manchester clubs and Chelsea - on a considerably restricted relative budget- and stick it up their arse. :D
Last edited by Diamond Dog on 03 Nov 2017, 11:09, edited 1 time in total.
1-800-288-8372

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 32443
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby Goat Boy » 03 Nov 2017, 10:55

Oh I think most of us would love to see 'em shove it up those clubs arses.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

User avatar
The Modernist
2018 BCB Cup Champ!
Posts: 12231
Joined: 13 Apr 2014, 20:42

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby The Modernist » 03 Nov 2017, 11:33

There's still a problem of quality of depth though. The jibe from Guardiola that they were a one man team was unfair, but carried some truth. Without Kane against Man Utd, they had no solution. That will continue to hold them back until they successfully address it.

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23284
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby Toby » 03 Nov 2017, 12:02

Rayge wrote:What about Greenwood and Bonds at West Ham?



It would be churlish of me to point out that Ron Greenwood won the FA Cup with West Ham, something that Mauricio Pochettino has yet to do. I don't think that the reign of managers from 64 to 86 or so was particularly dynastic - the Hammers just had a run of players like Brooking and Moore who came from a time when most played for one club and there was a particular culture of playing football.

But the reality nowadays is that consistent participation in the Champions League is far more significant to the club as a whole than domestic cup competitions, which carry more weight arguably for fans who wish to see their side win a trophy. I suspect most fans of the big clubs would take european participation over a League cup win for example.

Players want trophies as well though, but I'm hopeful that those around Pochettino grasp what he's trying to achieve with Spurs and stick with him.

Obviously Real will be sniffing around him, but I think to a certain extent some managers of his ilk might be wary nowadays of working with a club with Real. Like Barca, they very much seem to promote from within, because the politics of these clubs are such a nightmare.

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 66658
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby Diamond Dog » 03 Nov 2017, 12:24

The Modernist wrote:There's still a problem of quality of depth though. The jibe from Guardiola that they were a one man team was unfair, but carried some truth. Without Kane against Man Utd, they had no solution. That will continue to hold them back until they successfully address it.


It's the bane of most modern clubs - with nearly all only playing one up top, it means the chances for the second striker are extremely limited and - consequently- is a very difficult squad position to fill with true quality. Spurs' options appear to be Son and Llorente.... which, on the surface, appear good options. But they aren't Harry Kane.

Looking around - Man City have Aguerro & Jesus - which is oustanding. The issue there is that Guardiola frequently uses both as starters so they don't really have the depth (I can't think of who qualifies as their third out and out striker). Where they can get around it is by the huge midfield depth they have, which should negate the challenge if either of those is injured.

Chelsea have Morata and Batshuayi.. which should be good enough besides the fact that Conte clearly doesn't trust Batshuayi.

Man Utd will be in an excellent position once Zlatan is back - with both him and Lukaku, they would be formidable in terms of cover. Mourinho will be able to rest Lukaku as and when he needs to and/or promote Zlatan to starter if he thinks Lukaku isn't performing - without any noticeable loss in performance.
1-800-288-8372

User avatar
Geezee
Posts: 12333
Joined: 24 Jul 2003, 10:14
Location: Where joy divides into vision

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby Geezee » 03 Nov 2017, 13:31

Rayge wrote: Among the things Spurs have 'won' under Pochettino: hearts and minds


:D
Smilies are ON
Flash is OFF
Url is ON

User avatar
Rayge
Posts: 13168
Joined: 14 Aug 2013, 11:37
Location: deepest Devon
Contact:

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby Rayge » 03 Nov 2017, 14:14

Toby wrote:
Rayge wrote:What about Greenwood and Bonds at West Ham?


It would be churlish of me to point out that Ron Greenwood won the FA Cup with West Ham, something that Mauricio Pochettino has yet to do.

Not churlish at all, Toby: I was aware of that, but I thought he did not do that until he was there five years or so, which was the point I was making, although now I check I see it was at the end of his third year. And I was seeing Greenwood-Lyall-Bonds (brainfart made me leave Lyall out first time, sorry) as the dynasty, with promotion from within, same as Liverpool had 65-85
In timeless moments we live forever

You can't play a tune on an absolute

Negative Capability...when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, Mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact & reason”

User avatar
Colonel Blink
Posts: 64
Joined: 25 Nov 2017, 10:49

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby Colonel Blink » 26 Nov 2017, 12:32

3-2. next.

User avatar
The Modernist
2018 BCB Cup Champ!
Posts: 12231
Joined: 13 Apr 2014, 20:42

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby The Modernist » 28 Nov 2017, 21:54

Spurs in crisis?

User avatar
jimboo
Posts: 6769
Joined: 29 Dec 2005, 17:43
Location: taking a foxy kind of stand

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby jimboo » 28 Nov 2017, 22:16

The Modernist wrote:Spurs in crisis?


Hardly , it just arrived a little earlier in the season, that's all. End of next month you won't hear the scousers saying this is our year neither.
Goat Boy wrote:Oh, do fuck off, prog boy.

User avatar
The Modernist
2018 BCB Cup Champ!
Posts: 12231
Joined: 13 Apr 2014, 20:42

Re: the Spurs thread

Postby The Modernist » 28 Nov 2017, 22:28

jimboo wrote:
The Modernist wrote:Spurs in crisis?


Hardly , it just arrived a little earlier in the season, that's all. End of next month you won't hear the scousers saying this is our year neither.


Man Utd in crisis then?