Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

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Diamond Dog
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Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby Diamond Dog » 24 Apr 2012, 05:44

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/17818958

I realise each sport has their own policies, and even within the individual sports certain federations deal with the problem esoterically, but - in general- how do you feel about the subject of proven drug cheats in sports? Is a lifetime ban appropriate? Or, if not, what is?
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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby BlueMeanie » 24 Apr 2012, 11:27

To be honest, I'm getting to the stage where I think - why not just let them all get on with it; maybe it would make it fairer if it was legalised. Tour de France, for example, I don't believe the human body can endure that amount of punishment without at least some artificial help. Of course, wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone was honest and 'sportsmanlike', but with so much at stake now financially, those days are long behind us. When millions of pounds/dollars are riding on the scoring of one goal or point it's human nature to try to find a way of getting an advantage. And if you know your opponent is on something, you're sometimes left with no alternative.

It's sad, I know, and it's not right, but it's inevitable. Unless we start making top sporting events amateur again, such as the Olympics. There's simply too much at stake.
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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby Nikki Gradual » 24 Apr 2012, 13:52

To my mind anything but a lifetime ban is just the authorities acknowledging that the problem is so widespread that you have to assume that everyone is cheating and the punishment is therefore more for getting caught than for taking the drugs in the first place.
Fuck it, sure, lifetime ban, all sports*.
Or legalise the lot and at least make it a level playing field.
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*For performance enhancing drugs only. Stupid banning rugby players or cricketers who get caught off-season with a trace of cocaine in their blood, or skiers who have had a spliff.
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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby Thesiger » 24 Apr 2012, 14:10

I'd stick to the lifetime ban (for performance enhancing drug use).
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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby sloopjohnc » 24 Apr 2012, 15:08

You guys are hardcore. I think a two-year ban is fine. An athlete's career is pretty short as it is and cutting them out of the Olympics and subsequent meets for the next two years wipes out any chance of earnings and endorsements for a stretch. That's a long time in an athlete's life.
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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby Diamond Dog » 24 Apr 2012, 15:28

sloopjohnc wrote:You guys are hardcore. I think a two-year ban is fine. An athlete's career is pretty short as it is and cutting them out of the Olympics and subsequent meets for the next two years wipes out any chance of earnings and endorsements for a stretch. That's a long time in an athlete's life.


Don't cheat then.
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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby Jeemo » 24 Apr 2012, 16:25

Diamond Dog wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:You guys are hardcore. I think a two-year ban is fine. An athlete's career is pretty short as it is and cutting them out of the Olympics and subsequent meets for the next two years wipes out any chance of earnings and endorsements for a stretch. That's a long time in an athlete's life.


Don't cheat then.


And if they want big events like the Olympics funded by the general public, leading to sums of money that most of us can only dream of. Then stay clean and dont cheat. I would also ban them from any future paid involvement in sport. Yes thats you Linford.
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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby sloopjohnc » 24 Apr 2012, 17:03

Diamond Dog wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:You guys are hardcore. I think a two-year ban is fine. An athlete's career is pretty short as it is and cutting them out of the Olympics and subsequent meets for the next two years wipes out any chance of earnings and endorsements for a stretch. That's a long time in an athlete's life.


Don't cheat then.


Coming from the man who probably has almost every Led Zeppelin bootleg every recorded, I find this pretty amusing.

But I digress. I think two years is a good period of time. Time enough to reflect on what you've wasted, yet enough time to spend enough time training correctly and getting an athletic career right again.

There's lots at stake, mostly these are young people, or older athletes trying to hang on to a career. People make mistakes, should pay for them, but not for the rest of their life.

Heck, Jeff Lynne was allowed to keep making music even though ELO shows were pre-recorded.

Maybe that's not the best example though.
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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby Diamond Dog » 24 Apr 2012, 17:27

sloopjohnc wrote:
Coming from the man who probably has almost every Led Zeppelin bootleg every recorded, I find this pretty amusing.




The buying and owning of bootlegs is perfectly legal.

It is the recording, production and selling of them that is illegal.
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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby fire and fueryIre » 25 Apr 2012, 01:33

sloopjohnc wrote:You guys are hardcore. I think a two-year ban is fine. An athlete's career is pretty short as it is and cutting them out of the Olympics and subsequent meets for the next two years wipes out any chance of earnings and endorsements for a stretch. That's a long time in an athlete's life.


Two years isn't a long time if the drugs have resulted in major, possibly permanent changes in their bodies, though...
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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby The Prof » 25 Apr 2012, 09:21

The only fair way is to drug them all up equally.....to the eyeballs.

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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby Conrad Knight Socks » 25 Apr 2012, 09:51

Jeemo wrote: I would also ban them from any future paid involvement in sport. Yes thats you Linford.


I doubt you could go that far - you can't stop them from making a living at what the are good at, so being a coach or a sports teacher should be fine. But ban them from competitions.
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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby Jeemo » 25 Apr 2012, 10:19

Siren wrote:
Jeemo wrote: I would also ban them from any future paid involvement in sport. Yes thats you Linford.


I doubt you could go that far - you can't stop them from making a living at what the are good at, so being a coach or a sports teacher should be fine. But ban them from competitions.


I really dont see why not. Why should a proven cheat be allowed to stay in the sport.
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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby Diamond Dog » 12 May 2012, 05:31

It's when I see things like this that I get a little disturbed :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/18020004

Can you honestly imagine if Gattlin beats the rest (including Bolt etc) at the Olympics and wins gold? Will anyone truly believe the best man has won?
Last edited by Diamond Dog on 12 May 2012, 09:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby fire and fueryIre » 12 May 2012, 08:16

sloopjohnc wrote:
I think two years is a good period of time. Time enough to reflect on what you've wasted, yet enough time to spend enough time training correctly and getting an athletic career right again.

There's lots at stake, mostly these are young people, or older athletes trying to hang on to a career. People make mistakes, should pay for them, but not for the rest of their life.




Two words that make a mockery of the two years argument....

Ben Johnson...

Once a cheat, always a cheat...
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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby sloopjohnc » 13 May 2012, 00:40

fueryhk(redux) wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:
I think two years is a good period of time. Time enough to reflect on what you've wasted, yet enough time to spend enough time training correctly and getting an athletic career right again.

There's lots at stake, mostly these are young people, or older athletes trying to hang on to a career. People make mistakes, should pay for them, but not for the rest of their life.




Two words that make a mockery of the two years argument....

Ben Johnson...

Once a cheat, always a cheat...


You got me there. No argument.
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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby andymacandy » 13 May 2012, 11:20

It should be life.Simple as that.
Drug taking goes against the very ethos of sport, and if it still counts for anything, the Olympic ideal.
If we really want to be rid of it, ban them for life.

Ill bet that half the athletes in the Games would happily take a medal if you offered it to them, saying they couldn't compete thereafter for two years.Two years for an Olympic medal? In an instant-that's no kind of deterrent.

However, I would mitigate that with significantly increased research and development for WADA.Make them leaders, not perennially catching-up, and also maintain the two year ban for accidental intake of non-performance enhancing substances in cold-remedies and such.Keep the whole issue a critical factor in an athletes lifestyle, and one that is constantly in their minds.
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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby sloopjohnc » 15 May 2012, 20:58

andymacandy wrote:It should be life.Simple as that.
Drug taking goes against the very ethos of sport, and if it still counts for anything, the Olympic ideal.
If we really want to be rid of it, ban them for life.

Ill bet that half the athletes in the Games would happily take a medal if you offered it to them, saying they couldn't compete thereafter for two years.Two years for an Olympic medal? In an instant-that's no kind of deterrent.

However, I would mitigate that with significantly increased research and development for WADA.Make them leaders, not perennially catching-up, and also maintain the two year ban for accidental intake of non-performance enhancing substances in cold-remedies and such.Keep the whole issue a critical factor in an athletes lifestyle, and one that is constantly in their minds.


There was a study done more than a couple years ago that asked Olympic and various pro athletes that given the choice, would they take a drug that helped make them a champion even if they knew it would take a few years off their life. Overwhelmingly, the athletes said they would.

There's a phrase in baseball that goes, if ya ain't cheating, ya ain't playing right.

I think any athlete looks for an edge in various ways: training, nutrition, equipment, and then some step over the line.

I still think life banishment is a lot and a 4-year stretch for Olympic athletes or a season for a pro is punishment enogh.
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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby Diamond Dog » 15 May 2012, 21:16

I can't get my head around the reasoning, I really can't.

When you take a performance enhancing drug - that is, an artificial stimulant that will chemically alter your body to give you an unfair dvantage over your opponent- you KNOW you are cheating. It's not like it's a small difference - look at Ben Johnson 'bafore' and 'after'. Not in the top 50 in the world clean - best 'ever' when doped, beating the best easily and smashing records like a Sunday afternoon stroll. It's unbelievable to me that anyone who likes sports actually thinks anythingless than a lifetime ban is too harsh. Really, it staggers me. What is the point of having athletes at all - just have a contest for the best pharmaceutical company and be done with it.
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Re: Drug cheats - is a lifetime ban correct?

Postby sloopjohnc » 15 May 2012, 22:08

Diamond Dog wrote:I can't get my head around the reasoning, I really can't.

When you take a performance enhancing drug - that is, an artificial stimulant that will chemically alter your body to give you an unfair dvantage over your opponent- you KNOW you are cheating. It's not like it's a small difference - look at Ben Johnson 'bafore' and 'after'. Not in the top 50 in the world clean - best 'ever' when doped, beating the best easily and smashing records like a Sunday afternoon stroll. It's unbelievable to me that anyone who likes sports actually thinks anythingless than a lifetime ban is too harsh. Really, it staggers me. What is the point of having athletes at all - just have a contest for the best pharmaceutical company and be done with it.


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