The all new Arsenal thread

[The Modernist]

One more point, you are placing an awful lot of importance on legacy here, but the truth is once a manager retires there's not a lot they can do. And there are plentiful examples of this, most notably Manchester United post Busby. We saw a similar decline at Liverpool after Paisley/Shankly (although the Fagan, then Dalglish appointments managed to sustain success for a couple more years). Would you blame Paisley and Shankly for that? It looked like we were seeing a similar decline post Ferguson too, but these days Manchester United are so big that they can afford to throw money at the problem until it turns around.

[Goat Boy]

How about Clough taking a team from the second division and onto titles and the European Cup? Or Jock Stein moulding a team of local lads into the best team in Europe? Or Sacchi taking Milan, a club that had been going nowhere for years, and reinventing them as one of the most fluid machines the game has ever seen? Or what Shankley did at Liverpool, they weren't always a big club you know.
None of which diminishes Wenger's achievements, but it's not quite as unique as you suggest in my view.

Clough's achievements were magnificent but where are Nottingham Forest now? They've been languishing in the Championship for 2 decades or so. In the long term Forest's achievements were brief and there is no evidence that the success Clough brought them was sustained.

Shankly and Paisley are probably alongside Ferguson the other example of a manager transforming and perpetuating success, both with silverware and more importantly today, money.

I think Wenger deserves to be in that trio.

Your criticisms of Forest are a bit odd. Forests success was a total anomaly with no real historical president there. Long term success was not a realistic goal but they did finish in the top five 7 out of the first 12 seasons back in the first division after Clough got them promoted. For a club like Forest that was still really something without even factoring in the cups.

I would put Wenger in the 2nd tier of English football league managers. Below the likes of Fergie, Shankly, Busby, Paisley...

[clive gash]

Highbury

A blend of Art Deco grandeur and ordinariness that meant it fitted perfectly


https://www.theblizzard.co.uk/article/highbury

[Brickyard Jack]

Interesting to see that Giroud, that second rate pile of cack, scored his hundred goals for Arsenal one game faster than Robin van Persie

[The Modernist]

Interesting to see that Giroud, that second rate pile of cack, scored his hundred goals for Arsenal one game faster than Robin van Persie

RVP was always coming back from injury wasn't he?

[Penk!]

van Persie was a promising backup player for his first few years at the club. He had probably played 50-75 games for them before he became a first choice. Not surprising that his goals record was less inspiring earlier on.

Giroud's role now, as a plan B, is probably what he is best suited to. He's a good player but too inconsistent and lacking genuine class. One hesitates to call him a Europa League player, but...

[Brickyard Jack]

van Persie was a promising backup player for his first few years at the club. He had probably played 50-75 games for them before he became a first choice. Not surprising that his goals record was less inspiring earlier on.

Giroud's role now, as a plan B, is probably what he is best suited to. He's a good player but too inconsistent and lacking genuine class. One hesitates to call him a Europa League player, but...

Assuming this is about the number of gamestudents, not the years, the fact that Rob was not first choice early on is neither here nor there, is it? Unless you argue that for say his first 50 appearances he came on as sub with 15 minutes to go.

On checking I see he was not a sub in his his first 50 league appearances for Arsenal.

[Penk!]

On checking I see he was not a sub in his his first 50 league appearances for Arsenal.

Not sure where you're getting that: Wikipedia tells me that in his first season he made 18 starts and 23 substitute appearances in all competitions. In his second season he made 21 starts and 17 substitute appearances.

I would think it is pretty obvious that someone who was not a regular starter and who was competing with the likes of Henry, Bergkamp, Reyes, Adebayor, Baptista and, er, Aliadiere for game time would have taken more games to reach 100 goals than someone who was first choice during his first few years at the club and had competition for game time from Podolski, Bendtner, Chamakh and Park Chu-Young.

[Brickyard Jack]

On checking I see he was not a sub in his his first 50 league appearances for Arsenal.

Not sure where you're getting that: Wikipedia tells me that in his first season he made 18 starts and 23 substitute appearances in all competitions. In his second season he made 21 starts and 17 substitute appearances.

stats eh? It was the premier league website, which has the right number of appearances but the subs say zero.

[Penk!]

They must be Giroud fans too!

[Dr Markus]

Ancelotti for Arsenal?!?!?!?

[Lord Rother]

Wenger must be bloody nuts playing Iwobi and Ramsey when he has a fully fit Wilshere sitting on the bench.

[The Modernist]

Wilshere should be in the side, but instead of Xhaka.

[Diamond Dog]

Poor decision for the third goal yesterday - it was tighter than it first looked, but still definitely offside- and I think Wenger has a right to feel aggrieved.... though his players stopping completely and leaving Jesus clear in the six yard box didn't help so much.

[The Modernist]

Poor decision for the third goal yesterday - it was tighter than it first looked, but still definitely offside- and I think Wenger has a right to feel aggrieved.... though his players stopping completely and leaving Jesus clear in the six yard box didn't help so much.

Yeah it was a clear offside. The penalty was debatable but I can see why it was given and Wenger's post-match comments were over the top and unnecessary.
Overall, given how comprehensively outplayed we were in the first half and how many chances City created and spurned, we can hardly complain about the result. It was a fair reflection of the game.

[Diamond Dog]

I thought it was a clear penalty.... Monreal has not got anywhere near the ball and has basically just run into Sterling.

[Diamond Dog]

Sanchez was garbage too.

[Goat Boy]

has Sanchez just given up then?

Sulking till he gets his transfer?

[Diamond Dog]

It certainly appeared so yesterday.

[Penk!]

If Wenger wants to moan that Sterling dived yesterday then he should be shown footage of Lacazette agains Everton recently, trying to get Ashley Williams a second yellow.

I have no idea what that ”panel” for dives are doing with their time, but that one should have been waved right through.